Mistreatment of German women POWs

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JamesL
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#16

Post by JamesL » 27 Apr 2011, 02:39

To recapitulate some statistics from my previously sourced documents.

May 1945- US holds 3,000,000 to 4,000,000 German POWs.
May 1945 - Eisenhower orders the release of female POWs.
May 1945 - US starts directing efforts of 750,000 POWs to rebuild German roads, bridges, railroads and other infrastructure. They were excellent workers. When the Americans discharged them from the German Army many were rehired by the US to continue this work as civilians.
September 1945 - US enlisted men are disarmed except while on duty. Officers permitted to carry sidearms.
July 1946 - US holds 207,000 German POWs, the others being released. So in one year the US released 90% of its POWs.
Summer 1947 - US holds 5,000 German POWs, mainly SS and other persons of interest.

THE AMERICAN MILITARY OCCUPATION OF GERMANY 1945 – 1953. (p. 96)
http://www.history.hqusareur.army.mil/A ... c45-53.pdf

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Vikki
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#17

Post by Vikki » 21 Jun 2011, 19:53

Larry D. wrote:And it is no different today. Every time a rape story appears on the national or local news, the reporter or commentator almost always interjects the statement that statistically speaking some 85% to 90% of rapes go unreported. But it is still immeasurably better than it was 300 years ago and before when cities and towns were given to the army that conquered them for three days of pillaging, rape, torture and slaughter. Today, it's up to the woman to step forward because until she does no one knows about the rape aside from her and the rapist. We all know the procedure and its manifold conflict with due process to the detriment of both the victim and the defendant, so there is no point in going over all that again here.

L.
I would interject that there is probably a wide gap between the estimated percentage of unreported rapes today and that same figure for the war and immediate post-war period. In addition to the very different societal norms and view of rape at the time (especially compared to changes in attitude which have come about in the last decade), military occupation by a foreign power would also discourage victims' reporting of rapes.

~Vikki


lilyirene8084
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#18

Post by lilyirene8084 » 11 Feb 2015, 06:33

I would wonder if Son of German POW would consider collaborating with his mom on a book about her treatment? I would be very interested in reading her account.

flakbait
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#19

Post by flakbait » 17 Feb 2015, 06:34

Unfortunately forcible rape is still all too common in modern society; in the age before DNA, and other modern police procedures the chances of convicting the offenders was usually very slim, even assuming the victim was courageous enough to report the crime and demand justice. In the context of being held as a female PoW with many mostly male jailers and almost completely at their mercy (justly or not) to avoid `being shot while attempting to escape`, simply listed as `escaped` or `died of unknown causes` the baser and crueler side of human flaws and defects of character were certainly present. War is heaping injury and violence upon your opponent, and those he cares for, and that does not stop once the bullets stop flying. Women have traditionally and universaly paid the heaviest price for the folly of their societies` leaders, particularly after they lose a very violent prolonged war...it is cruel but common truth through out the history of mankind.

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Son_of_German_American
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#20

Post by Son_of_German_American » 22 May 2016, 19:10

If my mother were still alive, she could tell you to your face. The stories I related were from my mother to our family as a kid growing up, not paying a lot of attention, since it bore no relevence to me then, other than the fact she said it and that it happened. My brother is a product of that experience. A bit more than anecdotal, in my opinion. It was not until after her death, that I came across some photos of her as a POW, which shocked me to my core. After trying to find out more information, and discovering just how insanely difficult that is, I sought out various forums with the hope that others may have had simi,ar experiences, and maybe even shed some light on the experience.

little did I expect to be lambasted here as I was by equivocating so-called experts who neither had personal experiences, or awareness of the experiences. They have plenty of documents that they present as evidence of nothing, and that they were in the region a full 10 years after the fact. Likewise, I too lived in Germany on several different occasions which proves nothing. From 1955 -1958, Bamberg, Neuremberg; 1961 -1964, Mannheim; 1974 - 1977, Kaiserlautern, Neubreuke.

Had I known this forum was going to be so anti anything other than what the prevailing thought polizi states that it should be, I would and actually wish I could delete any and all post relating to anything I might have presented. Clearly, intellectual and fair discussion is absent here. That explains why information is so hard to come by, on the subject.

not to worry, this will be my last post, and you all can continue in your joyous world of make believe.

Panzermahn
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#21

Post by Panzermahn » 23 Nov 2017, 13:02

Has anyone had chance to review this book?

Image

https://www.amazon.com/Crimes-Unspoken- ... 509511202/

David Thompson
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#22

Post by David Thompson » 23 Nov 2017, 16:41

Panzermahn -- There are 13 reviews at the Amazon link you provided, none of which mention German women POWs. Let's keep this discussion on the thread topic -- the H&WC section already has numerous open threads on the mistreatment of German women civilians.

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Waleed Y. Majeed
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#23

Post by Waleed Y. Majeed » 23 Nov 2017, 17:38

This article does mention women pows,
mistreatment, rape and killings.
http://www.rense.com/general19/camps.htm
and the same with some additional info.

w

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Gorque
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#24

Post by Gorque » 24 Nov 2017, 17:15

I would be very careful in accepting any articles from the "rense" site as being factual without first crosschecking the author and or article for veracity.

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Waleed Y. Majeed
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#25

Post by Waleed Y. Majeed » 24 Nov 2017, 17:31

Sorry Gorque
Forgot to post the rest! As you can see I wrote "additional info etc..." but forgot the link(s). Author should be enough though.
http://vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/10/2/Brech161-166.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/General/Ba ... h2002.html

w

Knouterer
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#26

Post by Knouterer » 15 Dec 2017, 10:48

Son_of_German_American wrote: (Either way, the POW's in country were treated worse than vermin and millions died after the war at the hand of Americans, or by the direct non intervention or direct refusal to allow Germany to rebuild. It was US policy to make the Germans suffer.
Such wild claims are not supported by any (serious) German historians. Certainly there were chaotic conditions in 1945 for which the Allies might have prepared better. Many prisoners were kept in the open for weeks and were poorly fed (about 1750 kcal per day according to later American investigations). About a million men were put in the "Rheinwiesenlager" of which between 5,000 and 10,000 did not survive, although it should be noted that many POWs were already badly wounded or seriously ill when they were became prisoners. Conditions in other American-controlled camps were probably similar. However, contrary to some other Allied nations the Americans had no (long-term) need for forced labourers and started to release prisoners even before the end of the war.
Mortality among POWs taken to America was very low. The German (semi-)official history (Das Deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg, Vol. 10/2, p. 442) puts the number of German prisoners there during the whole war at 380,000, of which 735 died, that's not quite 0.2%. Some died of wounds received before capture, some of natural causes and accidents, 72 committed suicide. A few were condemned to death and executed after murdering fellow prisoners.

The last bunch of German POWs left the USA in July 1946, the last German POWs in American hands in Europe were released in June 1947.

Of the 600,000 "official" German POWs in British hands 1,700 died, also a very low rate considering the long time span (1939-1948).
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton

Knouterer
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#27

Post by Knouterer » 15 Dec 2017, 16:27

For German speakers, info from a (regional) government website about the Andernach POW camp referred to above. No mention of American atrocities. The article does mention an incident in August 1945, when 20 prisoners were shot by French troops which by then had taken over the camp, but states that the circumstances remain unclear.

http://rheinwiesen-lager.de/einzelne-la ... andernach/

Regarding the treatment of female POWs, German sources seem to agree that women and Hitler youths were released first, in many cases before the war was officially over, followed by older men and those urgently needed to restart the economy and feed the population, such as miners and farmers.
Last edited by Knouterer on 16 Dec 2017, 13:17, edited 2 times in total.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton

LineDoggie
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Re: Mistreatment of German women POWs

#28

Post by LineDoggie » 16 Dec 2017, 00:00

Son_of_German_American wrote:(Split from Women in combat in the Wehrmacht.)

My mother was a radar operator in the wehrmacht. She was captured and held until 1949. She was raped by Americans and was impregnated in 1949, just before her release from captivity. My older brother is a living testament to that. She spoke very little of her ordeal during those years. A slice of moldy white bread, a half pat butter, occasionally a cup of potato soup, and on a good day a spoon of marmalade, served as her rations during that time. 1944 to 1949. No barrack, no latrine, no fresh clothes, no shelter, all in an open air camp. Wasn't life great? That was an American POW camp, in the American sector, the one you don't often get to hear about. Little is spoken of regarding the conditions in country post war and how difficult it was for anyone to survive; many did not.
Why would your mother be imprisoned by the USA for 4-1/2 years if she was not a war criminal? Frankly I'm going to say this is all a fabrication since Most POW including Waffen-SS were released in 1947-48 timeframe by the USA and UK.

IF Eisenhower ordered all the records destroyed why do the records still exist? You do comprehend Ike did not control the CONUS POW camps?


Open POW camps until 1949 with no cover or latrines and starvation rations less than a jew in a German death camp got for 4 years? Total Bullshit claim
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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