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"Under Finnish occupation"

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed.
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"Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Mikko H. on 10 Aug 2011 11:57

Under Finnish occupation

It sounds almost impossible; Finland was once an occupying power. It happened 70 years ago, and the place was East Karelia. The matter has not been forgotten in Russian Karelia. In 2009 the Parliament of the Republic of Karelia decided on a new public holiday. The 30th of September is now celebrated as the “Day of Liberation from Fascist Occupation”.
“I opposed the name, because the Finns were neither fascists nor Nazis, but the Members of Parliament decided differently”, says Sergei Verigin, Dean of the Faculty of History at the University of Petrozavodsk.


Read the rest at: http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Under+Finnish+occupation/1135268409001
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Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Vaeltaja on 10 Aug 2011 12:32

Wonder why they dug this one from the mothballs? I mean it was news in 2009.
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Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby igor_verh on 11 Aug 2011 07:07

On the territory of Karelia under occupation there were only a little over 100 thousand people. Approximately 20-30% of those people were killed. In other words Finnish occupation regime was one of the most violent in the occupied Soviet Union, surpassing largely German. Would have remained there 500.000 people (who were able to evacuate) - would have been killed hundreds of thousands.
In Karelia at war were 17 finnish concentration camps and prisons for civilians:
Центральная тюрьма п. Киндасово (central prison in Kindasovo)
Территориальная тюрьма Кестеньги (prison in Kestenga)
Концлагерь Киннасваара (concentration camp Kinnasvaara)
Концлагерь Колвасярви (Куолоярви) (concentration camp Koulojarvi)
Лагеря для перемещённых лиц (1 ЦВА Восточная Карелия)
Концлагерь Абакумов—Бузянская (concentration camp Abakumov-Buzyanskaya)
Концлагерь Хабаров—Клеева (concentration camp Khabarov-Kleeva)
Концлагерь Климанов—Лисинский (concentration camp Klimanov-Lisinskiy)
Концлагерь Ляпсин-Орехов (concentration camp Lyapsin-Orehov)
Концлагерь Орлов—Сименков (concentration camp Orlov-Simenkov)
Концлагерь Семереков—Свиридов (concentration camp Semerekov-Sviridov)
Концлагерь Тахуилов—Звездин (concentration camp Tahuilov-Zvezdin)
Концлагерь Хепосуо (concentration camp Heposuo)
Концлагерь Паалу (concentration camp Paalu)
Концлагерь Видлицы (concentration camp Vidlicy)
Концлагерь Совхоза (concentration camp Sovhoz)
Концлагерь Ильинское (concentration camp Ilinskoe)
Also in Petrozavodsk were 7 concentration camps:
Концлагерь № 1, располагался на Кукковке (ныне — Старая Кукковка)
Концлагерь № 2, располагался в бывших домах Северной точки
Концлагерь № 3, располагался в бывших домах Лыжной фабрики
Концлагерь № 4, располагался в бывших домах Онегзавода
Концлагерь № 5, располагался в Железнодорожном посёлке (в годы войны — Красная Горка)
Концлагерь № 6, располагался на Перевалочной бирже
Концлагерь № 7, располагался на Перевалочной бирже
Some informations about finnish occupation you may find in books:
Laine A. Suur-Suomen kahdet kasvot. Itä-Karjalan siviiliväestön asema suomalaisessa miehityshallinnossa. 1941—1944. Helsinki: Keuruu, 1982.
Seppälä H. Suomalaista rotuerottelua: Itä-Karjalan venäläisväestö suomalaisen sotilashallinnon keskitysleirillä 1941—1944 // Ulkopolitiikka. 2005
Seppälä H. Suomi miehittäjänä. 1941-1944 . – Helsinki, 1989
"Чудовищные злодеяния финско-фашистских захватчиков на территории карело-финской ССР. Сборник документов и материалов." Сулимин С., Трускинов И., Шитов Н. Государственное издательство Карело-Финской ССР
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Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Vaeltaja on 11 Aug 2011 08:45

Well posting old propaganda photographs is not really a good way to start.

Also last i checked the number of people 'left behind' was around 85 000 with highly skewed distribution (heavy on children and elderly). Of these 20% - 30% were confined to the camps. And total of 4 000 to 7 000 (depending sources) died during their confinement - mostly from malnutrition.

Matter has been previously discussed in the forums for several times
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Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby igor_verh on 11 Aug 2011 15:35

Other "old propaganda" photo : Mannerheim and man, who started «holocaust»
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Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Juha Tompuri on 11 Aug 2011 19:52

igor_verh wrote:On the territory of Karelia under occupation there were only a little over 100 thousand people. Approximately 20-30% of those people were killed.
As Vaeltaja has mentioned, these numbers do not correlate with the reality.
IIRC they originate from Soviet mid-40' "calculations"
Some already existing threads about the issue:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=176121&hilit
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=178067

Regards, Juha
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Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby David Thompson on 11 Aug 2011 21:27

igor_verh -- You wrote:
On the territory of Karelia under occupation there were only a little over 100 thousand people. Approximately 20-30% of those people were killed. In other words Finnish occupation regime was one of the most violent in the occupied Soviet Union, surpassing largely German. Would have remained there 500.000 people (who were able to evacuate) - would have been killed hundreds of thousands.

Please give the sources of information for your claims in future posts. Our rules require it:

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viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53962
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Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Marcus Wendel on 14 Aug 2011 19:24

igor_verh wrote:http://pobeda.gov.karelia.ru/Veteran/memory.html
http://gorod.tomsk.ru/index-1297965055.php
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0% ... 0%BD%D1%8B


Thanks for those sources but as most of our members don't understand Russian, please provide translations of the relevant parts of those pages, thanks.

/Marcus
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Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby igor_verh on 14 Aug 2011 19:42

Unfortunately, my english is not very good for correct translation, but you may use google translate , I usually use it, when find information, which intresting for me :milwink: .
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Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Marcus Wendel on 14 Aug 2011 20:44

igor_verh wrote:Unfortunately, my english is not very good for correct translation, but you may use google translate , I usually use it, when find information, which intresting for me :milwink: .


In that case please post the Google translation of the relevant parts of those pages.

/Marcus
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Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Tommy R on 06 Sep 2011 11:29

Just some info (from an article on the subject by CF Guest) on the famous propaganda shot of the children in Petrozavodosk, it was taken by the war correspondent Galina Sanko after the Finns had left the city so she asked some children playing in the street to pose beside an open gate to the camp.
There are some happier shots of the children too as can be seen in the attached photo.
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Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Seppo Jyrkinen on 11 Sep 2011 06:57

Very round cheeks; won't look malnourished children. At school they got extra meal, but it I don't think it has been the only reason. Food situation at 1944 has in generally been much better than 1942.
A word irony is baked into the word history.
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