"Under Finnish occupation"

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
Mikko H.
Financial supporter
Posts: 1560
Joined: 07 May 2003 10:19
Location: Helsinki, Finland

"Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Mikko H. » 10 Aug 2011 11:57

Under Finnish occupation

It sounds almost impossible; Finland was once an occupying power. It happened 70 years ago, and the place was East Karelia. The matter has not been forgotten in Russian Karelia. In 2009 the Parliament of the Republic of Karelia decided on a new public holiday. The 30th of September is now celebrated as the “Day of Liberation from Fascist Occupation”.
“I opposed the name, because the Finns were neither fascists nor Nazis, but the Members of Parliament decided differently”, says Sergei Verigin, Dean of the Faculty of History at the University of Petrozavodsk.


Read the rest at: http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Under+Finnish+occupation/1135268409001

Vaeltaja
Member
Posts: 837
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 20:42

Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Vaeltaja » 10 Aug 2011 12:32

Wonder why they dug this one from the mothballs? I mean it was news in 2009.

User avatar
igor_verh
Member
Posts: 204
Joined: 23 Jun 2011 19:14
Location: Russia

Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby igor_verh » 11 Aug 2011 07:07

On the territory of Karelia under occupation there were only a little over 100 thousand people. Approximately 20-30% of those people were killed. In other words Finnish occupation regime was one of the most violent in the occupied Soviet Union, surpassing largely German. Would have remained there 500.000 people (who were able to evacuate) - would have been killed hundreds of thousands.
In Karelia at war were 17 finnish concentration camps and prisons for civilians:
Центральная тюрьма п. Киндасово (central prison in Kindasovo)
Территориальная тюрьма Кестеньги (prison in Kestenga)
Концлагерь Киннасваара (concentration camp Kinnasvaara)
Концлагерь Колвасярви (Куолоярви) (concentration camp Koulojarvi)
Лагеря для перемещённых лиц (1 ЦВА Восточная Карелия)
Концлагерь Абакумов—Бузянская (concentration camp Abakumov-Buzyanskaya)
Концлагерь Хабаров—Клеева (concentration camp Khabarov-Kleeva)
Концлагерь Климанов—Лисинский (concentration camp Klimanov-Lisinskiy)
Концлагерь Ляпсин-Орехов (concentration camp Lyapsin-Orehov)
Концлагерь Орлов—Сименков (concentration camp Orlov-Simenkov)
Концлагерь Семереков—Свиридов (concentration camp Semerekov-Sviridov)
Концлагерь Тахуилов—Звездин (concentration camp Tahuilov-Zvezdin)
Концлагерь Хепосуо (concentration camp Heposuo)
Концлагерь Паалу (concentration camp Paalu)
Концлагерь Видлицы (concentration camp Vidlicy)
Концлагерь Совхоза (concentration camp Sovhoz)
Концлагерь Ильинское (concentration camp Ilinskoe)
Also in Petrozavodsk were 7 concentration camps:
Концлагерь № 1, располагался на Кукковке (ныне — Старая Кукковка)
Концлагерь № 2, располагался в бывших домах Северной точки
Концлагерь № 3, располагался в бывших домах Лыжной фабрики
Концлагерь № 4, располагался в бывших домах Онегзавода
Концлагерь № 5, располагался в Железнодорожном посёлке (в годы войны — Красная Горка)
Концлагерь № 6, располагался на Перевалочной бирже
Концлагерь № 7, располагался на Перевалочной бирже
Some informations about finnish occupation you may find in books:
Laine A. Suur-Suomen kahdet kasvot. Itä-Karjalan siviiliväestön asema suomalaisessa miehityshallinnossa. 1941—1944. Helsinki: Keuruu, 1982.
Seppälä H. Suomalaista rotuerottelua: Itä-Karjalan venäläisväestö suomalaisen sotilashallinnon keskitysleirillä 1941—1944 // Ulkopolitiikka. 2005
Seppälä H. Suomi miehittäjänä. 1941-1944 . – Helsinki, 1989
"Чудовищные злодеяния финско-фашистских захватчиков на территории карело-финской ССР. Сборник документов и материалов." Сулимин С., Трускинов И., Шитов Н. Государственное издательство Карело-Финской ССР
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Vaeltaja
Member
Posts: 837
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 20:42

Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Vaeltaja » 11 Aug 2011 08:45

Well posting old propaganda photographs is not really a good way to start.

Also last i checked the number of people 'left behind' was around 85 000 with highly skewed distribution (heavy on children and elderly). Of these 20% - 30% were confined to the camps. And total of 4 000 to 7 000 (depending sources) died during their confinement - mostly from malnutrition.

Matter has been previously discussed in the forums for several times

User avatar
igor_verh
Member
Posts: 204
Joined: 23 Jun 2011 19:14
Location: Russia

Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby igor_verh » 11 Aug 2011 15:35

Other "old propaganda" photo : Mannerheim and man, who started «holocaust»
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 10063
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Juha Tompuri » 11 Aug 2011 19:52

igor_verh wrote:On the territory of Karelia under occupation there were only a little over 100 thousand people. Approximately 20-30% of those people were killed.
As Vaeltaja has mentioned, these numbers do not correlate with the reality.
IIRC they originate from Soviet mid-40' "calculations"
Some already existing threads about the issue:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=176121&hilit
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=178067

Regards, Juha

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 22228
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby David Thompson » 11 Aug 2011 21:27

igor_verh -- You wrote:
On the territory of Karelia under occupation there were only a little over 100 thousand people. Approximately 20-30% of those people were killed. In other words Finnish occupation regime was one of the most violent in the occupied Soviet Union, surpassing largely German. Would have remained there 500.000 people (who were able to evacuate) - would have been killed hundreds of thousands.

Please give the sources of information for your claims in future posts. Our rules require it:

2. Claims and Proof

The sixth rule of the forum is: "When quoting from a book or site, please provide info on the source (and a link if it is a website)."

If a poster raises a question about the events, other posters may answer the question with evidence. If a poster stops asking questions and begins to express a point of view, he then becomes an advocate for that viewpoint. When a person becomes an advocate, he has the burden of providing evidence for his point of view. If he has no evidence, or doesn't provide it when asked, it is reasonable for the reader to conclude that his opinion or viewpoint is uninformed and may fairly be discounted or rejected.

Also, undocumented claims undercut the research purposes of this section of the forum. Consequently, it is required that proof be posted along with a claim. The main reason is that proof, evidence, facts, etc. improve the quality of discussions and information. A second reason is that inflammatory, groundless posts and threads attack, and do not promote, the scholarly purpose of this section of the forum. For more on this subject, see the announcement at viewtopic.php?p=990676#990676

This requirement applies to each specific claim. In the past, some posters have attempted to evade the proof requirement by resort to the following tactics, none of which are acceptable here:

A general reference to a website, or a book without page references; citations or links to racist websites; generalized citations to book reviews; and citations to unsourced articles.

Noncomplying posts are subject to deletion after warning.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53962


User avatar
Marcus Wendel
Forum Staff
Posts: 29939
Joined: 08 Mar 2002 22:35
Location: Sweden

Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Marcus Wendel » 14 Aug 2011 19:24

igor_verh wrote:http://pobeda.gov.karelia.ru/Veteran/memory.html
http://gorod.tomsk.ru/index-1297965055.php
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0% ... 0%BD%D1%8B


Thanks for those sources but as most of our members don't understand Russian, please provide translations of the relevant parts of those pages, thanks.

/Marcus

User avatar
igor_verh
Member
Posts: 204
Joined: 23 Jun 2011 19:14
Location: Russia

Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby igor_verh » 14 Aug 2011 19:42

Unfortunately, my english is not very good for correct translation, but you may use google translate , I usually use it, when find information, which intresting for me :milwink: .

User avatar
Marcus Wendel
Forum Staff
Posts: 29939
Joined: 08 Mar 2002 22:35
Location: Sweden

Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Marcus Wendel » 14 Aug 2011 20:44

igor_verh wrote:Unfortunately, my english is not very good for correct translation, but you may use google translate , I usually use it, when find information, which intresting for me :milwink: .


In that case please post the Google translation of the relevant parts of those pages.

/Marcus

Tommy R
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 08 Aug 2008 22:07

Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Tommy R » 06 Sep 2011 11:29

Just some info (from an article on the subject by CF Guest) on the famous propaganda shot of the children in Petrozavodosk, it was taken by the war correspondent Galina Sanko after the Finns had left the city so she asked some children playing in the street to pose beside an open gate to the camp.
There are some happier shots of the children too as can be seen in the attached photo.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Seppo Jyrkinen
Member
Posts: 267
Joined: 21 Dec 2010 17:51

Re: "Under Finnish occupation"

Postby Seppo Jyrkinen » 11 Sep 2011 06:57

Very round cheeks; won't look malnourished children. At school they got extra meal, but it I don't think it has been the only reason. Food situation at 1944 has in generally been much better than 1942.
A word irony is baked into the word history.


Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 7 guests