"If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

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ericpa06
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"If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#1

Post by ericpa06 » 10 Jul 2012, 07:22

I was reading about Hitler's mother, about her doctor, Eduard Bloch he was a jew that Hitler allowed emigrate to USA, I read that Hitler always was grateful by how the doctor took care of his mother when she was sick. And I read that Hitler said: "If all Jews were like him, there would be no Jewish question."

There are evidence that Hitler said that? I mean, if he really said I think that is really impressive thing. I mean, a man so FANATIC, blind by hate, would be able to think, to be so racional about a thing, even if that was just with one person, about he think:

"Hey, this jew is a not a bad jew, this jew is a good person, that don't deserve to die in a concentration camp"

If Hitler really thing, it's a pitty that he don't used this critical sense, and you know thing "Hey, I think that most part of jew is good person, and i don't will kill jews, if he have done that maybe the course of history would be other.

PS: Sorry if this was not the right place, of the forum, to post this kind of question. If it's not, just put on the right place, thanks!

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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#2

Post by Helly Angel » 15 Jul 2012, 04:40

Hello, welcome... which is your source?


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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#3

Post by Darth Vader » 07 Jun 2013, 16:03

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#4

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 18 Jun 2013, 23:43

I await the forces of "moderation" to show-up and slap you down for that link :lol: .

ericpa06, You should read up on Ernst Hess (one of Hitler's CO's in WWI). http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... alone.html


And also of his connections to Jewish Art dealers and other Jews in Vienna. :)
Hitler's Jewish Friends

Despite meticulous investigation, historical researchers have been unable to find a personal reason for Hitler’s hatred of the Jews. Hitler was not refused admission to art school by a Jewish professor, nor was he infected with syphilis by a Jewish prostitute – these myths have been definitively discounted through meticulous research. Even Hitler himself did not cite a negative personal experience with Jews.

In Mein Kampf, only an encounter with a ‘figure in a long caftan with black hair’ is mentioned, which reputedly led Hitler to address the arguments of anti-Semites for the first time. Analysis of the accounts of contemporary witnesses indicates that Hitler not only had no negative experiences with Jews in Vienna, but in fact had a remarkable number of Jewish friends and business associates. At the time Hitler resided in Vienna, around eight to ten per cent of the city’s population were Jews. This was also the approximate ratio of Jewish residents in the men’s hostel Hitler lived in. However, the proportion of Jews among Hitler’s associates was far higher than this percentage. In fact, it almost seems as if the young Hitler preferred to spend his time with Jews. Historian Brigitte Hamann examined these connections in her book Hitler’s Vienna (Hitlers Wien, 1996) in more detail; the results of her investigations are summarised below.

Hitler sold his paintings almost exclusively to Jewish dealers: Morgenstern, Landsberger and Altenberg. The master glazier Samuel Morgenstern was his most consistent buyer. The art dealer Peter Jahn, who later searched for Hitler’s artwork on behalf of the NSDAP, attested to the extremely good relationship between Hitler and Morgenstern. Morgenstern introduced the young painter to private clients, including the Jewish lawyer Dr Joseph Feingold, who also became a patron. Not only could Altenberg not remember Hitler making any anti-Semitic statements, he in fact asserts that Hitler seems to have preferred Jewish dealers. Hitler’s men’s hostel friend Hanisch recalled that Hitler had often said that ‘you can do business with the Jews because they’re the only ones prepared to take a risk’.1 Hansich’s statement is confirmed by an anonymous resident at the hostel in the spring of 1912: ‘Hitler got on extremely well with Jews, and once said they were a clever people who stick together better than the Germans.2’

Hitler’s best friend during his time at the men’s hostel was a Jewish copper polisher named Joseph Neumann, with whom Hitler once disappeared for a week. Another Jewish resident, Siegfried Löffner, took Hitler’s side when he felt conned by another (non-Jewish) resident, and reported the incident to the police. Hitler also maintained a friendly relationship with the one-eyed Jewish locksmith Simon Robinson, which led Robinson to support Hitler using money from his disability allowance. Rudolf Redlich from Moravia was another Jewish friend of Hitler. While Hitler was still living with August Kubizek, his roommate took him along to a family music evening held by an affluent Jewish family called the Jahodas. Afterwards, Hitler had only positive comments to make about his hosts and absolutely nothing critical to say. The Jewish general practitioner from Linz, Dr Bloch, who treated Hitler’s mother, received hand-painted postcards from Hitler for years on which Hitler expressed his gratitude. As the status of Jews deteriorated dramatically under the Nazi campaign of terror, Dr Bloch managed to get a petition through to Imperial Chancellor Hitler. Hitler responded immediately and prevented the doctor and his wife from being taken to a collection camp. In 1940, Dr Bloch and his wife emigrated to the USA. As his medical degree was not recognised there, Dr Bloch was no longer able to work as a doctor, and he died penniless and far from home in the Bronx in New York in 1945.3

Samuel Morgenstern was less ‘fortunate’. The reliable art buyer and patron of the homeless Hitler wrote to the Imperial Chancellery in 1939 to ask for help. ‘On 10 November, my business was closed as a result of legal measures and my trading license simultaneously withdrawn, thereby leaving me entirely without means [...] I am sixty-four years old, my wife is sixty, we have been dependent on public generosity for many months and intend to emigrate to find jobs abroad [...] My humblest request to Your Excellency is to have it decreed that the Property Trading Office grant a small remuneration to me in foreign currency for my unencumbered property in District 21, which by official estimate is worth R.M.4,000.00, in return for ceding said property to the State, so that I may produce the required landing funds and live modestly with my wife until we obtain jobs.’4 The letter did not reach Hitler. Morgenstern and his wife were taken to a collection camp and deported to the ghetto of Litzmannstadt (Lodz) in 1941. Together with 160,000 local Jews, 20,000 Jews from Germany and 5,000 Roma gypsies from Burgenland the Morgensterns were packed in unbearably cramped conditions. In 1943, Samuel Morgenstern died of exhaustion. His wife was deported to Auschwitz extermination camp in 1944. Two years later she was declared dead at the request of her brother.5

1 There were in fact unsold paintings by the young Hitler in the offices of Morgenstern and Altenberg which the NDSAP found twenty-five years later. B. Hamann, Hitlers Wien, Munich 1996, p.500
2 Anonymous, ‘My friend Hitler’ p.11, in: ‘The story of Mein Kampf’, Vienna Library Bulletin, 6 (1952), No.5/6 pp.31–32, S. Aronson, Reinhard Heydrich und die Frühgeschichte von Gestapo und SD, Stuttgart 1971, quoted from: I. Kershaw, op. cit., p.100
3 See: B. Hamann, op. cit., p.500
4 B. Hamann, ibid., p.509
5 See: B. Hamann, ibid., p.512
http://www.younghitler.com/hitlers_jewish_friends.htm


There basically was a wide divergence on Hitler's personal interactions with many Jews, and the "generalizations" he had to espouse as leader of the NSDAP and the German people.
Last edited by ChristopherPerrien on 19 Jun 2013, 00:12, edited 2 times in total.

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Darth Vader
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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#5

Post by Darth Vader » 19 Jun 2013, 00:00

I await the forces of "moderation" to show-up and slap you down for that link.
Indeed, I have only just noticed the address of the link. :oops:
I find your lack of faith disturbing.

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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#6

Post by Safety First » 04 Jul 2013, 12:43

There seems to be a few books that put this in as well, I do know that Hitler did not persecute all Jews and some Jews or people of Jewish descent were even "Aryanized" and made exceptions, most notably generals Erhard Milch and a few other Mischlinge... it was just using and abusing.

There is evidence that Hitler had Jewish 'friends' during his time in Vienna and actually relied on them to sell his postcards when he was a down and out tramp.

After the annexing of Austria his mother's doctor who he granted protection and allowed to go peacefully to America.

Another person of part Jewish descent, Ernst Hess was saved from "persecution" by the Nazis under Hitler's wish as he remembered him during World War 1 and was proud of his service.

Astonishingly over 150,000 Jews and part Jews served in the forces during World War 2 as well according to the book Hitler's Jewish Soldiers by Bryan Mark Rigg who after discovering he was of part Jewish descent converted to Judaism. Ironically, in the findings of this book he also discovered that one person in particular who was of Jewish descent, Werner Goldberg was called "The Ideal German Soldier" in German newspapers.

An American Jew named Gertrude Stein also was fond of Hitler and said that he deserved the nobel peace prize:

“The Saxon element is always destined to be dominated. The Germans have no gift at organizing. They can only obey. And obedience is not organization. Organization comes from community of will as well as community of action. And in America our democracy has been based on community of will and effort.... I say Hitler ought to have the peace prize...because he is removing all elements of contest and struggle from Germany. By driving out the Jews and the democratic Left elements, he is driving out everything that conduces to activity. That means peace.”.

Ludwig Wittgenstein's sisters were re-classified as "Aryans" too after they paid an undisclosed amount of money to the Nazi party.

Emil Maurice, a close friend of Hitler who went back to the early days of the Nazi party also was found to have Jewish roots yet Hitler remained loyal to him through out and was given "Honorary Aryan" status.

Gotthard Heinrici married a half-Jewish woman Gertrude and he was given a German Blood Certificate as his children were considered Mischlinge under Nazi racial laws (part Jewish) and were re-classified as "Aryans".

There is quite a lot of cases of exceptions being made.

All the best

William

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Penn44
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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#7

Post by Penn44 » 04 Jul 2013, 19:48

Safety First wrote:There seems to be a few books that put this in as well, I do know that Hitler did not persecute all Jews and some Jews or people of Jewish descent were even "Aryanized" and made exceptions, most notably generals Erhard Milch and a few other Mischlinge... it was just using and abusing.
Safety First wrote:After the annexing of Austria his mother's doctor who he granted protection and allowed to go peacefully to America.
Yet, Bloch had to flee. If Hitler was such a swell guy, he would have not persecuted the Jews to begin with. You are trying to say that some Jews should be not be thanks they were not persecuted?
Safety First wrote:An American Jew named Gertrude Stein also was fond of Hitler and said that he deserved the nobel peace prize:

“The Saxon element is always destined to be dominated. The Germans have no gift at organizing. They can only obey. And obedience is not organization. Organization comes from community of will as well as community of action. And in America our democracy has been based on community of will and effort.... I say Hitler ought to have the peace prize...because he is removing all elements of contest and struggle from Germany. By driving out the Jews and the democratic Left elements, he is driving out everything that conduces to activity. That means peace.”.
Why don't you cite where you lifted that translation from? I think you did from Wikipedia.

Why you don't mention is that the same article raises doubts regarding Stein's judgment because of her support of Vichy France?
Safety First wrote:Ludwig Wittgenstein's sisters were re-classified as "Aryans" too after they paid an undisclosed amount of money to the Nazi party.
Oh, how sweet of the Nazis to do this out of the goodness of their hearts. Some people refer to that practice as a "shake down" or paying "protection money."
Safety First wrote:There is quite a lot of cases of exceptions being made.
Yeah, if you subtract 6 million murdered, thousands of camp survivors, and thousands forced into hiding under dire circumstances, your "a quite of lot of cases of exceptions" dwindles into insignificance.

Safety First, what are you really trying to say?

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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#8

Post by Marcus » 04 Jul 2013, 21:45

An off-topic post by ChristopherPerrien discussing the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust was moved to http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1#p1804081, please stay on track here, we have several open threads for discussions on that topic, this is not one of them.

/Marcus

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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#9

Post by Safety First » 04 Jul 2013, 22:23

Penn44 wrote:Yet, Bloch had to flee. If Hitler was such a swell guy, he would have not persecuted the Jews to begin with. You are trying to say that some Jews should be not be thanks they were not persecuted?
What I was saying is that not all Jews were persecuted and that Hitler was not against his mother's doctor and he was well aware he was Jewish.
Why don't you cite where you lifted that translation from? I think you did from Wikipedia.
There was a citing (4 sources) for it but there was no need to get it but that c & p is from Wikipedia.
Why you don't mention is that the same article raises doubts regarding Stein's judgment because of her support of Vichy France?
Because we are talking about Adolf Hitler not Vichy France, is that one not obvious? She said that statement and that is that, what you are blabbering on about has nothing to do with her statement about Hitler.
Oh, how sweet of the Nazis to do this out of the goodness of their hearts. Some people refer to that practice as a "shake down" or paying "protection money."
What I was showing again is that there were cases when certain Jews were not persecuted, you cannot deny this.

[The part of this post discussing the total number of victims were moved to http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1#p1804111]

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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#10

Post by Marcus » 04 Jul 2013, 22:28

Again, stay on topic.

/Marcus

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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#11

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 04 Jul 2013, 22:59

Marcus Wendel wrote:An off-topic post by ChristopherPerrien discussing the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust was moved to http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1#p1804081, please stay on track here, we have several open threads for discussions on that topic, this is not one of them.

/Marcus
:thumbsup:,
Chris

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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#12

Post by Penn44 » 05 Jul 2013, 06:59

Safety First wrote:
Penn44 wrote:Yet, Bloch had to flee. If Hitler was such a swell guy, he would have not persecuted the Jews to begin with. You are trying to say that some Jews should be not be thanks they were not persecuted?
What I was saying is that not all Jews were persecuted and that Hitler was not against his mother's doctor and he was well aware he was Jewish.
That was one Jew and his family whom Hitler assisted. Compare this with the vast numbers of Jews who died.

Incidentally, there are some who believe that Dr. Bloch caused the Holocaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explaining_Hitler
Why you don't mention is that the same article raises doubts regarding Stein's judgment because of her support of Vichy France?
Safety First wrote:Because we are talking about Adolf Hitler not Vichy France, is that one not obvious? She said that statement and that is that, what you are blabbering on about has nothing to do with her statement about Hitler.
It is very relevant. You obviously thought Stein's opinion of Hitler was important in order to quote it. When you look at Stein's supportive comments regarding Vichy and Petain you have to seriously question this woman's judgment. The opinion of one Jew with bizarre opinions is NOT illustrative of Jewish attitudes towards Hitler. Your example is a very bad one.
Oh, how sweet of the Nazis to do this out of the goodness of their hearts. Some people refer to that practice as a "shake down" or paying "protection money."
Safety First wrote:What I was showing again is that there were cases when certain Jews were not persecuted, you cannot deny this.
What I am denying is the significance that the Nazis spared a relative handful of Jews. May I refer you to Himmler's speech at Posan in October 1943 in which he said:
I am talking about the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It is one of those things that is easily said. [quickly] "The Jewish people is being exterminated," every Party member will tell you, "perfectly clear, it's part of our plans, we're eliminating the Jews, exterminating them, a small matter". [less quickly] And then along they all come, all the 80 million upright Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. [mockingly] They say: all the others are swine, but here is a first-class Jew. [a few people laugh] And ... [audience cough] [carefully] ... none of them has seen it, has endured it. Most of you will know what it means when 100 bodies lie together, when 500 are there or when there are 1000. And ... to have seen this through and -- with the exception of human weakness -- to have remained decent, has made us hard and is a page of glory never mentioned and never to be mentioned. Because we know how difficult things would be, if today in every city during the bomb attacks, the burdens of war and the privations, we still had Jews as secret saboteurs, agitators and instigators. We would probably be at the same stage as 16/17, if the Jews still resided in the body of the German people.
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/him ... izkor.html

The relative handful exceptions aside, after 1941, the Nazis had no desire to spare the vast majority of the Jews.

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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#13

Post by Safety First » 05 Jul 2013, 13:51

Penn44 wrote:That was one Jew and his family whom Hitler assisted. Compare this with the vast numbers of Jews who died.

Incidentally, there are some who believe that Dr. Bloch caused the Holocaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explaining_Hitler
I've read that book and there is many different historians who question the reasoning for Hitler's anti-Semitism and the origin of it, nobody can actually answer only speculate from his rumoured own Jewish blood (although this has no evidence to support it just an unconfirmed widely circulated rumour), the mother's doctor, the people who rejected him from the art school were Jews, his half-niece got pregnant by a Jew, he got syphilis from a Jew in Vienna, etc etc... so it proves my point not every single Jew was punished or persecuted.
It is very relevant. You obviously thought Stein's opinion of Hitler was important in order to quote it. When you look at Stein's supportive comments regarding Vichy and Petain you have to seriously question this woman's judgment. The opinion of one Jew with bizarre opinions is NOT illustrative of Jewish attitudes towards Hitler. Your example is a very bad one.
What she said about others is not relevant to discuss so instead of giving a red herring or some sort of 'excuse' or 'diversion' to somehow come across as what she said about Hitler is not right or what she said, I presume you also will 'deny' in some way other some sort of pro-Hitler comments such as the ones from JFK?
What I am denying is the significance that the Nazis spared a relative handful of Jews. May I refer you to Himmler's speech at Posan in October 1943 in which he said:

I am talking about the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It is one of those things that is easily said. [quickly] "The Jewish people is being exterminated," every Party member will tell you, "perfectly clear, it's part of our plans, we're eliminating the Jews, exterminating them, a small matter". [less quickly] And then along they all come, all the 80 million upright Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. [mockingly] They say: all the others are swine, but here is a first-class Jew. [a few people laugh] And ... [audience cough] [carefully] ... none of them has seen it, has endured it. Most of you will know what it means when 100 bodies lie together, when 500 are there or when there are 1000. And ... to have seen this through and -- with the exception of human weakness -- to have remained decent, has made us hard and is a page of glory never mentioned and never to be mentioned. Because we know how difficult things would be, if today in every city during the bomb attacks, the burdens of war and the privations, we still had Jews as secret saboteurs, agitators and instigators. We would probably be at the same stage as 16/17, if the Jews still resided in the body of the German people.
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/him ... izkor.html

The relative handful exceptions aside, after 1941, the Nazis had no desire to spare the vast majority of the Jews.

Penn44

.[/quote]

How is it not significant? It clears shows that the laws were not applied to every single non-Aryan racially, such as the Jews. There were also over 150,000 Jews or people of Jewish descent serving in the army, read up on Hitler's Jewish Soldiers, worth a read and might shock you!

In case you forgot, Himmler is not Hitler and I'm well aware of the speeches given by Himmler but we are talking about Hitler, stop again shooting off to another even person - Hitler only ever spoke about expulsion of the Jews from Europe, such as the suggested Madagascar Plan.

I think what you are doing is somehow trying to make out that EVERY SINGLE Jew was persecuted, these few examples clearly show not.

All the best

William

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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#14

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 05 Jul 2013, 18:19

What I am denying is the significance that the Nazis spared a relative handful of Jews.
Hitler wasn't "the nazis". What we are discussing are the many Jews that Hitler himself saved simply because he knew them personally and liked them , and what he said about it.

And then to have written, "Mein Kampf" :lol:

The "contradiction" between the personal Hitler and the public figure of Hitler , deserves to be studied more , because the current monolithic view of Hitler is flawed.

Some may think such discussion is a move to white-wash Hitler , it is not. In the end there is no way to absolve Hitler of ultimate responsibility for "The Final Solution".

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Re: "If all Jews were like him..."- Hitler really said that?

#15

Post by Penn44 » 05 Jul 2013, 19:13

Safety First wrote:How is it not significant? It clears shows that the laws were not applied to every single non-Aryan racially, such as the Jews. There were also over 150,000 Jews or people of Jewish descent serving in the army, read up on Hitler's Jewish Soldiers, worth a read and might shock you!
Governments, like individuals, very often apply laws with exceptions or waiver. This is not unusual at all. You are easily shocked.

That Hitler had his favorite Jews has been well known since the 1930s.
Safety First wrote:In case you forgot, Himmler is not Hitler and I'm well aware of the speeches given by Himmler but we are talking about Hitler, stop again shooting off to another even person - Hitler only ever spoke about expulsion of the Jews from Europe, such as the suggested Madagascar Plan.
Are you saying that Himmler implemented Final Solution on his own accord?
Safety First wrote:I think what you are doing is somehow trying to make out that EVERY SINGLE Jew was persecuted, these few examples clearly show not.
No, I am not. On the other hand, are you saying that ALL these protected Jews who remained in Germany lived without any harassment, persecution or extra scrutiny whatsoever?

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