NS-propaganda and Poland after the 1939 invasion

[history1]

Why are you changing the matter, Timmy?
It was about
"It must be clear to everyone in Germany, down to the last milkmaid, that Polish is the same as subhuman. "
and not how Germans did tread Poles or that Poles got killed by them.
And I doubt that entries from Göbbels diary were known by the public in 1939.
Nor do I agree that Egon Leuschner´s book with the remarks "Secret - for internal use only!" was known to the Germans. What makes your quote from this work insufficient.

[Timmy]

Why are you changing the matter, Timmy?
It was about
"It must be clear to everyone in Germany, down to the last milkmaid, that Polish is the same as subhuman. "
and not how Germans did tread Poles or that Poles got killed by them.
And I doubt that entries from Göbbels diary were known by the public in 1939.
Nor do I agree that Egon Leuschner´s book with the remarks "Secret - for internal use only!" was known to the Germans. What makes your quote from this work insufficient.

I'm not changing anything, I've simply cited stuff that show NS-propaganda did regard the Poles as racially inferior subhumans and such text was used.

That was from an order giving to the Propaganda Ministry and the propaganda was adapted for this affect, I've shown you more than enough of how Poles were seen to the Germans of the Third Reich era.

Here is more propaganda urging Germans to avoid any relations with Poles:

Maintain the purity of German blood! That applies to both men and women! Just as it is considered the greatest disgrace to become involved with a Jew, any German engaging in intimate relations with a Polish male or female is guilty of sinful behavior. Despise the bestial urges of this race! Be racially conscious and protect your children. Otherwise you will forfeit your greatest asset: your honor!

From Hitler's Foreign Workers: Enforced Foreign Labor in Germany Under the Third Reich, Ulrich Herbert, p.76-77

It does not matter if the diaries were public or not, it clearly shows what Hitler thought of Poles in 1939.

What makes you think Egon Leuschner's works on foreign policy according to NS ideology was not public to Germans?

The book Polish Atrocities Against the German Minority in Poland published in 1940 that was public shows only too full well what the public were taught about Poles.

http://archive.org/stream/PolishAtrocit ... d_djvu.txt

There is plenty of books from that era available to public that show exactly what the National Socialists thought of the Third Reich thought of the Poles.

[history1]

[...] What makes you think Egon Leuschner's works on foreign policy according to NS ideology was not public to Germans? [...]

The remark ""Secret - for internal use only!" in the front of the book.

[Timmy]

[...] What makes you think Egon Leuschner's works on foreign policy according to NS ideology was not public to Germans? [...]

The remark ""Secret - for internal use only!" in the front of the book.

https://archive.org/details/Leuschner-E ... olkpolitik

PDF format, where in German does it say that?

I don't speak German.

Anyways, does it really matter? There were plenty of anti-Polish sentiments given out to the public and I've already listed some.

Just look at even Hitler's words in the Danzig speech 19 September 1939:

Actually, Poland never was a democracy. An infinitesimal, degenerate upper class ruled not only over foreign nationalities, but also over what they called their own people. It was a State ruled by brute force, by the police and, as a last resort, also by the army. The lot of the Germans in this country was terrible. There is a considerable difference whether a people of inferior cultural importance has the misfortune of being ruled over by culturally superiors or whether a people with higher cultural standards has to endure the tragic fate of having to submit to a rule of violence inflicted by an inferior people, for this inferior people will develop all kinds of inferiority complexes and the reaction will make them turn against the superior and cultured people whom they will cruelly and barbarously ill-treat. The Germans have had to endure this fate for close on twenty years.

The fact, which for all of us was not only depressing, but at the same time infuriating, was that we had to submit to all this at the hands of a State which was vastly inferior to us. After all Germany was undeniably a Great Power, even though a few madmen believed that they could abolish the vital rights of a great nation by means of an insane or an enforced treaty.

How could a Great Power like Germany be expected to look on how a much inferior people and a much inferior State maltreated Germans in these territories? Two conditions in particular were quite unbearable. Firstly, a city, whose German character could not be contested by anyone, was not only prevented from finding its way back to the Reich, but an attempt was also made to colonize it systematically and gradually by a thousand means and ways. Secondly, communication with a province separated from the German Reich was interfered with by all kinds of petty chicanes or made dependent on the benevolent attitude of the Polish State. No other power in the world would have put up with such conditions for so long a time as Germany did. I cannot imagine what England for instance would have said to a similar solution, purporting to establish peace at her expense, or how France or the United States of America would have accepted such a solution.

https://archive.org/stream/DanzigIsGerm ... n_djvu.txt

What are you even doubting here?

[wm]

Well, both Hitler and Stalin were great at name calling. That their enemies were degenerates, bastards, dwarfs, and similar lesser creatures were to be expected.
And I think nobody is claiming Hitler/Himmler and others didn't believe in their pet racial theories, or the SS, occupational forces and civil servants weren't indoctrinated by them.
The question is, was that done openly, especially the übermenschen/untermenschen idea, and I suppose it wasn't. Even The Eternal Jew, the movie didn't use them.

[Timmy]

Well, both Hitler and Stalin were great at name calling. That their enemies were degenerates, bastards, dwarfs, and similar lesser creatures were to be expected.
And I think nobody is claiming Hitler/Himmler and others didn't believe in their pet racial theories, or the SS, occupational forces and civil servants weren't indoctrinated by them.
The question is, was that done openly, especially the übermenschen/untermenschen idea, and I suppose it wasn't. Even The Eternal Jew, the movie didn't use them.

How was it not done openly? They openly called their opponents Untermenschen in public speakings and the terms were open to the German public.

Goebbels speaking at the Nuremberg party rally in September 1935:

While National Socialism brought about a new version and formulation of European culture, Bolshevism is the declaration of war by Jewish-led international subhumans against culture itself. It is not only anti-bourgeois, it is anti-cultural. It means, in the final consequence, the absolute destruction of all economic, social, state, cultural, and civilizing advances made by western civilization for the benefit of a rootless and nomadic international clique of conspirators, who have found their representation in Jewry.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_fi.php?MediaId=192

I've already listed many of times openly public text that described certain people as Untermenschen. The term was used both in private and publicly.

In regards to the film The Eternal Jew - have you actually watched the film? The Jews were regarded as parasites and rats.

http://research.calvin.edu/german-propa ... e/ewig.htm

The text read as follows: "Where rats turn up, they spread diseases and carry extermination into the land. They are cunning, cowardly and cruel, they travel in large packs, exactly the way the Jews infect the races of the world."

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... ejude.html

Untermenschen did go hand in hand with the Eternal Jew, the pamphlet Der Untermensch (The Subhuman) which was public said:

Mulattoes and Finn-Asian barbarians, Gipsies and black skin savages all make up this modern underworld of subhumans that is always headed by the appearance of the eternal Jew.

All the people categorized as Untermenschen (Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, Communists, Bolsheviks, etc etc) certainly goes parallel with how these people were treat, so yes it was done openly. They did not hide labeling these people as subhumans.

[Timmy]

Here is some public propaganda anti-Polish films:

http://www.ushmm.org/online/film/displa ... e_num=2254

Heimkehr [Coming Home] - anti-Polish

http://www.ushmm.org/online/film/displa ... e_num=4241

Ufa Tonwoche - History of Danzig and the Volkdeutsch

http://www.ushmm.org/online/film/displa ... e_num=5391

Ufa Tonwoche - anti-Polish propaganda just prior to outbreak of war

http://www.ushmm.org/online/film/displa ... e_num=3877

Ostland - deutsches Land - Ethnic Germans victimized in Poland - "Polish Untermensch" is mentioned here

Kampf dem Fleckfieber [Fighting Typhus] - Typhus propaganda associating Jews & Poles with the disease and its spread by lice

Two mentions of Untermenschen in films are:

http://www.ushmm.org/online/film/displa ... e_num=5388

Goebbels visits troops in the last days - Untermenschen is said around 57 seconds

Just do a little research and you'll see Untermenschen was used quite a lot publicly and not just in secret documents or memos.

http://www.ushmm.org/online/film/displa ... e_num=5382

Soviet POWs with propagandistic commentary - Untermenschen is said around 40 seconds

[history1]

Here is some public propaganda anti-Polish films:
[...]
Two mentions of Untermenschen in films are:
http://www.ushmm.org/online/film/displa ... e_num=5388
Goebbels visits troops in the last days - Untermenschen is said around 57 seconds

Just do a little research and you'll see Untermenschen was used quite a lot publicly and not just in secret documents or memos.
[...]

How are you trying to fool us? The narrator wasn´t even referring to Poland in words, he mentioned "Bolshevik beasts". Just for your information, the city Lauban was German city then!

And please stop writing "Volksdeutsch" with the a capital letter, it´s an adjective and because of that it´s "volksdeutsch".
Masculin: der Volksdeutsche
Feminin: die Volksdeutsche
Plural: die Volksdeutschen

http://www.ushmm.org/online/film/displa ... e_num=5382

Soviet POWs with propagandistic commentary - Untermenschen is said around 40 seconds

Off topic, it´s a recording about soviet POW called "Untermenschen". That has nothing to do with propaganda towards Poland.

[Timmy]

How are you trying to fool us? The narrator wasn´t even referring to Poland in words, he mentioned "Bolshevik beasts". Just for your information, the city Lauban was German city then!

If you had been following the thread you'll see he was the questioning whether the term "Untermenschen" was applied publicly, not specifically to Poles, but just the word itself.

Did you also forget the other one which does mention "Polish Untermensch"?

http://www.ushmm.org/online/film/displa ... e_num=3877

We're not discussing what Lauban was or not.

And please stop writing "Volksdeutsch" with the a capital letter, it´s an adjective and because of that it´s "volksdeutsch".
Masculin: der Volksdeutsche
Feminin: die Volksdeutsche
Plural: die Volksdeutschen

It doesn't matter, stop diverting from the topic being spoken about.

Off topic, it´s a recording about soviet POW called "Untermenschen". That has nothing to do with propaganda towards Poland.

Follow the thread, I was showing examples of where Untermenschen was used publicly, not specifically towards only Poland.

Poland and Poles were described as Untermenschen publicly and privately, are you seriously trying to deny this despite everything I've shown you?

Considering you're having to resort to personal attacks (ad hominems) shows you're not able to able hold an argument or refute anything I've said.

Let me ask you simply: what is it you are questioning?

Poles were described as subhumans both in private and public, what are you even doubting?

[siwiec]

Did you also forget the other one which does mention "Polish Untermensch"?

http://www.ushmm.org/online/film/displa ... e_num=3877

It does not mention Untermensch, that is just in the description but not in the film.

[history1]

Did you also forget the other one which does mention "Polish Untermensch"?
http://www.ushmm.org/online/film/displa ... e_num=3877

It does not mention Untermensch, that is just in the description but not in the film.

Agreed

On the other hand let me tell you that the USHMM did publish a vid on YT with wrong narration. They were very thankful that I contacted them and pointed out the wrong parts of the vid, answering that they will do a new narration.
You see, they´re not omniscient or the answer to everything.

[history1]

[...]

Off topic, it´s a recording about soviet POW called "Untermenschen". That has nothing to do with propaganda towards Poland.

Follow the thread, I was showing examples of where Untermenschen was used publicly, not specifically towards only Poland.

The thread´s caption is "NS-propaganda and Poland after the 1939 invasion".
So stay out with propaganda which isn´t used towards Poles or Poland. It's as simple as that.

[David Thompson]

history 1 -- You wrote (to Timmy):

So stay out with propaganda which isn´t used towards Poles or Poland. It's as simple as that.

You are not a moderator here; do not presume to play the part.

[Timmy]

It does not mention Untermensch, that is just in the description but not in the film.

There is no audio in the video and its allegedly to be said the same as screams of "Juden, Juden, Juden!", it seems be accurate enough considering there is a title of "Polnische Kulturträger" in it at 6.00 and you can see people saying stuff.

I've contacted USHMM and ask them when its said in the video.

Egon Leuschner´s book with the remarks "Secret - for internal use only!"

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1919816

Can you show me where in the foreign policy it is marked as "Secret - for internal use only!" as you claim (you ignored this when I asked you).

On the other hand let me tell you that the USHMM did publish a vid on YT with wrong narration. They were very thankful that I contacted them and pointed out the wrong parts of the vid, answering that they will do a new narration.
You see, they´re not omniscient or the answer to everything.

People make mistakes. The fact is though that even this is wrong, there is other examples of the term Untermenschen being used against the Poles and Poland.

As I've said above, I've contacted USHMM to find out what time in the video "Polish Untermensch" is said.

[siwiec]

in the video and its allegedly to be said the same as screams of "Juden, Juden, Juden!", it seems be accurate enough considering there is a title of "Polnische Kulturträger" in it at 6.00 and you can see people saying stuff.

It is not inside quotemarks so seem likely it was added by someone who just wanted to stress the sarcasm in "Kulturträger".

Can you show me where in the foreign policy it is marked as "Secret - for internal use only!" as you claim (you ignored this when I asked you).

Maybe I can help you here. Text "Nur für den Dienstgebrauch" means "for official/internal use only", "Abgabe an Unberechtigte nicht gestattet" means "release to unauthorized persons prohibited".