- TS26/856-p274 British National Archives
Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
You'll have to judge yourself when I post the descriptions given by witnesses of the Commanding Officer and the time line of executions - but if Bremer was only wounded after the shelling began, which is put at 20.00hrs by Huber Meyer - three batches of prisoners totalling 19 were already dead. This account of Meyer's backs up Becker's testimony as follows:
Becker had arrived at the relocated HQ on the 9th of June. The only way that the Commanding Officer there that day was not Bremer, was if someone else with an RK was there or that the detail about the RK being worn by the Commander was incorrect. I think it best that I post the details of witnesses sooner rather than later and then give a pause to digest all this information.
Becker had arrived at the relocated HQ on the 9th of June. The only way that the Commanding Officer there that day was not Bremer, was if someone else with an RK was there or that the detail about the RK being worn by the Commander was incorrect. I think it best that I post the details of witnesses sooner rather than later and then give a pause to digest all this information.
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jan willem stokkers
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Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
oke we know that the execution started before the barrage and Becker in his statement talks about 18:30 and Meyer 20:00 hours. Oke there is a gap of 1 1/2 hours but i think it is plausible that the time-frame given by Becker is not 100% wright because i think that wenn you suddenly come under such an attack you will not have looked at youre watch to see what time it is and it is more that the witnesses who told Becker had the idea it was around that time. And i think Meyer also got his info from the Brititsh after the war wenn he wrote his book. (some years ago a friend of mine helped me with something on shipsartillery and he told me that the royal navy has books wenn and how many shells the have been firing at a certain time) And he was ofcourse after the war, even like KW Becker was, in contact with british or canadians. They met in Normandy, the visited eachother. The idea that they have been shot as a revenge for the shelling is something i personally can't believe and also wenn we see the timeframe it is not possibble.
That the allies have been informed by someone is something i have been told many times by veterans. But there was also a tacktik that the fired, lets say at 20:00 hours, they had a pause, and say after 15 minutes they started again. I have been told by AA.12 veterans that this sort of shelling mostly the second time had more casualties because everybody was walking around and was helping.
Gr.Jan Willem
That the allies have been informed by someone is something i have been told many times by veterans. But there was also a tacktik that the fired, lets say at 20:00 hours, they had a pause, and say after 15 minutes they started again. I have been told by AA.12 veterans that this sort of shelling mostly the second time had more casualties because everybody was walking around and was helping.
Gr.Jan Willem
Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
The executions started at 14.00 hrs (first Batch of 3 ) . The second batch of 3 were very soon after that approx 15.00 hrs - the third batch of 13 men were between approx 17.00 and 18.00hrs. Total killed were 19. When the Château was liberated, 7 more bodies were discovered. Autopsy reports put the date and manner of death as identical to the first 19. However, the investigation team did not have any eye witness testimony for these ones and so they only officially recorded the first 19. There would be no difference to the prosecution case if the shelling was 18.30 or 20.00hrs - the executions of the 19 were over by 18.00 hrs.
Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
This posting will deal with any descriptions of the Officers seen at the Château d’Audrieu by the witnesses who were present on June 8th. These witnesses were sworn in to give their testimony at the Château on July 10th 1944, just over one month after the events. Document WO209/5045 holds these testimonies and also the autopsy reports on the bodies found. The court of inquiry was held in pursuant to an order of the G.O.C. in C 21 Army Group, dated 7th July 1944.
Called to testify that day were members of the Allied forces who had fought with the POWs, those that had found the bodies and those who had examined the bodies. For our interest, the following were recorded are being present on the 8th of June at the Château:
Mme Level and her three daughters, Monique, Antoinette and Chantal. Their cousins, Beatrice and Rosalind Delafon. Also present were two friends, Annie Gautret and Louise Durant. The only employees mentioned were the members of the Lanoue family, the Gardener, Rene, his wife Louise and their son Raymond. Lastly there was a local farmer Leon Leseigneur and his employee Eugene Buchart. The owner, Philippe Level was not present as he was in England serving with the RAF (Source: G. Bernage - ‘Trois Jour en enfer’)
Only some of this group saw the events unfold that day. I have just taken the relevant questions in relation to the description of any of the troops:
Rene Lanoue (Gardener)
Q: Do you remember German troops arriving at that Château on that day (June 8th)
A: Yes, in the morning around 11 O’Clock, earlier in the morning of the 8th, some German troops came through the garden.
Q: Give the description of these troops to the best of your ability, stating the number of soldiers and Officers and the name of their unit if possible.
A: I was told that they were Panzers but I could not identify them myself.
Q: How many Officers and how many soldiers were there approximately?
A: I saw 7 or 8 soldiers near the Northern wall of the Chateau and I saw about 10 German Soldiers at the rear of the Château; there were others in the park. I saw two different Officers, one I would know again; he was dressed in black.
Q: Do you know what grade he was?
A: No, I could not tell.
Q: Did you notice anything special about the other Officer?
A: I could not tell the man’s rank, but he was a heavily built man and he came into the yard of my house. I cannot tell you this Officer’s rank because he was wearing camouflaged clothing similar to what we in France call tent material. I think that the Officer dressed in black was of higher rank than the other Officer I have spoken about.
Q: Would you know these Officers if you saw them again?
A: I would recognise both of them again.
Q: Are you sure you would recognise the larger man again?
A: I would recognise the big one again.
Raymond Lanoue (Gardener’s son)
Q: On that date (8th June) did a German unit occupy the Château ground?
A: At about 11.00 in the morning of the 8th of June, German troops of an ‘Adolf Hitler’ unit arrived in the grounds of the Château.
Q: Tell the court what you know about this German unit.
A: They had vehicles and armoured cars and at about 11.00 O’clock I saw 3 tanks among them. The tanks left almost immediately and I did not see them later.
Q: Can you tell the number of German troops that were in the grounds of the Château, how many Officers and men approximately?
A: I think there were approximately 50 Officers and men in the Château grounds.
Q: How many Officers were there?
A: I saw only one Officer and he was giving orders to members of the unit.
Q: What was this Officer’s rank?
A: I did not see his rank.
Q: How was he dressed?
A: He was dressed in black and he was wearing a stiff visor cap.
Q: Did this Officer wear any decorations?
A: No, I did not notice any decorations.
Q: Did you notice any distinguishing marks on this man’s sleeve or collar?
A: I did not notice any.
Eugene Buchart (Farm hand, age 20)
(He saw a group of Allied POWs beside a hedge on the evening of the 8th)
Q: Were there any German Soldiers nearby?
A: There were some German soldiers nearby, about 10 metres away.
Q: Were there any German Officers near these soldiers or nearby?
A: Yes, they were all in a group giving orders.
Q: Were there any German Officers there wearing black uniforms?
A: only one.
Q: Do you know what he rank was?
A: I cannot tell you.
Beatrice Delafon (Cousin, age 22)
Q: Did any German troops or formations arrive at this Château on the 8th of June 1944?
A: Yes; we saw them arrive around noon on the 8th of June.
Q: How many Officers and men were there in this party?
A: I saw three Officers, and I cannot tell you the number of soldiers. They kept going and coming all the time and I could not give an idea of how many men there were in the unit.
Q: Do you know the grade of the Officers?
A: I first saw a Captain and I saw a Commander, but I could not tell his rank. The Germans speak of a Commander and he ranks from a Captain up. This one had the Iron Cross around his neck and I gathered that he was a Knight of the Order of the Grand Cross.
Q: And you said there was a third Officer?
A: Yes; the third Officer was dressed in black. I cannot tell you his rank.
Q: Was he dressed in black or a dark blue?
A: Black, with a skull and crossbows on each side of his collar.
Q: What kind of headgear did these Officers wear?
A: They were wearing soft cloth hats with a stiff visor. Two Officers were wearing caps with stiff visors and the other one was wearing a field service cap.
Q: Can you remember what the others had on their collars?
A: I know that they were S.S. but I did not look at the man’s badge of rank.
Q: Are you familiar with the uniform of the S.S. troops?
A: Yes I am.
Q: Did you find out at any time the unit to which these men belonged?
A: On the left sleeve band of the soldiers was written ‘Adolf Hitler’ I think it was on the left sleeve but I am not certain.
Q: Was that on all the soldiers who were here on the afternoon of June 8th?
A: All those whom I noticed had ‘Adolf Hitler’ on their sleeves, but many of them had rain capes on and I could not say about them. I could not see what they had on their sleeves.
Q: If you were able to see any of the Germans again would you be able to identify them – I refer particularly to the Germans who escorted the prisoners past you – or any of the German Officers?
A: I could recognise the Officer that was dressed in black but not the soldiers that escorted the British soldiers or other soldiers who came into the house. It may be that I could recognise the other two Officers.
Monique Level (Daughter of Owner, age 20)
Q: Did any German troops or units arrive at this Château on the 8th of June 1944.
A: Yes, at noon on the 8th.
Q: Please state how many there were?
A: I have no idea. I don’t know what the total was, but I recall seeing about 50.
Q: How many Officers were there with them?
A: I saw three Officers; there may have been others.
Q: Can you tell what grade they were?
A: One was a Colonel, the other was a Captain and the third, I could not tell his rank but I think he was a lieutenant.
Q: Are you familiar with the insignia or badges of rank of German Officers?
A: Yes, I know the badges of rank of the regular German Army but I am not familiar with the S.S. insignias and ranks.
Q: How did you know that one of them was a Colonel?
A: We thought that he was a Colonel because he was commanding the unit and I am not definite but I seem to think that he had oak leaves on the collar of his tunic. He also had camouflaged clothing on, which made his identity of rank more difficult.
Q: Did this senior Officer wear any decorations?
A: I recognised his decoration as that of a Knight of the Order of the Iron Cross, and there was a further decoration hanging from the Iron Cross.
Q: Did any of the German Officers wear a black suit?
A: Yes the Captain wore a black suit.
Q: Did he have any marks on his uniform to show what unit he belonged to?
A: he had on his left sleeve ‘Adolf Hitler’.
Q: Do you think you could recognise or identify any on these Officers or soldiers if you ever saw them again?
A: I could well recognise the three Officers and at least one of the soldiers.
Points to ponder:
(1) The Officer in black – How could he have had ‘Adolf Hitler’ on his cuff title and skull and crossbows on his collar tabs?
(2) Even though von Reitzenstein was named by Howard Margolian as ‘Officer No 2’, there is no description given by any of the witnesses to corroborate this as will be apparent by their testimonies. The naming of von Reitzenstein came from Becker who said he took over Command when Bremer was wounded, (this was also supported by H Meyers account posted above) this does not mean he was the second Officer seen during the executions. There was another batch of prisoners found executed in the grounds, ones that were not seen by any of the witnesses but had been killed on the same day in the same manner per the autopsy reports – these may have been the ones that were alleged to have been killed in reprisal for Bremer’s wounding. The next posting regarding the time line will make all this clearer.
(3) Monique Level who was sure it was Wünsche in 1991, stated back in 1944 that the Commanding Officer ‘may’ have had Oak Leaves on his collar tabs and had something hanging from his RK. George Bernage picks up on this clue and cites it in his book as follows ‘This description seems to fit precisely to Kurt Meyer. But he has not been recognized’ ( 'Trois Jour en Enfer' page 99).
Why then does Bernage ignore this detail when he claims that the Commanding Officer had to be Wünsche? The key to anyone else but Bremer being the ‘Heavily built man’ lies in the timing of Bremer’s injury. As posted already, the testimony of all the witnesses stated that the artillery attack did not start on the Château until most of the POWs were known to have died (the time of death of the fourth batch was never known) both Becker and Hubert Meyer contend that Bremer was wounded after this time, can he be placed elsewhere that day and if so are the witnesses testimonies of seeing the RK on the Commanding Officer incorrect? But If they were correct, could it have really been Kurt Meyer there? During that day Meyer stated his location as follows:
‘On the afternoon of the 8th June I made a trip around the Regimental sector with the divisional commander, visiting the I/SS-Panzer Grenadier Regiment afterwards. Low flying aircraft were on our tail. I was glad to bring my commander back to my command post in one piece..’. (Grenadiers page 228)
When he returned to his HQ at the Abbey Ardenne, a plan of action was set in motion to attack Bretteville that night. Personally I think its highly implausible that Meyer would have been at the Château for the number of hours that the ‘Commander’ was seen that day (at least 3 hours) especially when things were so ‘hot’ in his own sector and because it seems apparent that Bremer was not wounded until that night. If Bremer had been wounded in the morning, there may have been a chance that K Meyer went to see what was happening at his HQ.
I don’t believe the Commander was Wünsche either, as Bernage’s evidence for that allegation is non-existent other than a very tenuous identification by someone 47 years after the event. I will post the time line and witness statements about what they saw and what time the POWs were being interrogated and the aftermath. Any thoughts or insights on what has already been posted are welcome.
Called to testify that day were members of the Allied forces who had fought with the POWs, those that had found the bodies and those who had examined the bodies. For our interest, the following were recorded are being present on the 8th of June at the Château:
Mme Level and her three daughters, Monique, Antoinette and Chantal. Their cousins, Beatrice and Rosalind Delafon. Also present were two friends, Annie Gautret and Louise Durant. The only employees mentioned were the members of the Lanoue family, the Gardener, Rene, his wife Louise and their son Raymond. Lastly there was a local farmer Leon Leseigneur and his employee Eugene Buchart. The owner, Philippe Level was not present as he was in England serving with the RAF (Source: G. Bernage - ‘Trois Jour en enfer’)
Only some of this group saw the events unfold that day. I have just taken the relevant questions in relation to the description of any of the troops:
Rene Lanoue (Gardener)
Q: Do you remember German troops arriving at that Château on that day (June 8th)
A: Yes, in the morning around 11 O’Clock, earlier in the morning of the 8th, some German troops came through the garden.
Q: Give the description of these troops to the best of your ability, stating the number of soldiers and Officers and the name of their unit if possible.
A: I was told that they were Panzers but I could not identify them myself.
Q: How many Officers and how many soldiers were there approximately?
A: I saw 7 or 8 soldiers near the Northern wall of the Chateau and I saw about 10 German Soldiers at the rear of the Château; there were others in the park. I saw two different Officers, one I would know again; he was dressed in black.
Q: Do you know what grade he was?
A: No, I could not tell.
Q: Did you notice anything special about the other Officer?
A: I could not tell the man’s rank, but he was a heavily built man and he came into the yard of my house. I cannot tell you this Officer’s rank because he was wearing camouflaged clothing similar to what we in France call tent material. I think that the Officer dressed in black was of higher rank than the other Officer I have spoken about.
Q: Would you know these Officers if you saw them again?
A: I would recognise both of them again.
Q: Are you sure you would recognise the larger man again?
A: I would recognise the big one again.
Raymond Lanoue (Gardener’s son)
Q: On that date (8th June) did a German unit occupy the Château ground?
A: At about 11.00 in the morning of the 8th of June, German troops of an ‘Adolf Hitler’ unit arrived in the grounds of the Château.
Q: Tell the court what you know about this German unit.
A: They had vehicles and armoured cars and at about 11.00 O’clock I saw 3 tanks among them. The tanks left almost immediately and I did not see them later.
Q: Can you tell the number of German troops that were in the grounds of the Château, how many Officers and men approximately?
A: I think there were approximately 50 Officers and men in the Château grounds.
Q: How many Officers were there?
A: I saw only one Officer and he was giving orders to members of the unit.
Q: What was this Officer’s rank?
A: I did not see his rank.
Q: How was he dressed?
A: He was dressed in black and he was wearing a stiff visor cap.
Q: Did this Officer wear any decorations?
A: No, I did not notice any decorations.
Q: Did you notice any distinguishing marks on this man’s sleeve or collar?
A: I did not notice any.
Eugene Buchart (Farm hand, age 20)
(He saw a group of Allied POWs beside a hedge on the evening of the 8th)
Q: Were there any German Soldiers nearby?
A: There were some German soldiers nearby, about 10 metres away.
Q: Were there any German Officers near these soldiers or nearby?
A: Yes, they were all in a group giving orders.
Q: Were there any German Officers there wearing black uniforms?
A: only one.
Q: Do you know what he rank was?
A: I cannot tell you.
Beatrice Delafon (Cousin, age 22)
Q: Did any German troops or formations arrive at this Château on the 8th of June 1944?
A: Yes; we saw them arrive around noon on the 8th of June.
Q: How many Officers and men were there in this party?
A: I saw three Officers, and I cannot tell you the number of soldiers. They kept going and coming all the time and I could not give an idea of how many men there were in the unit.
Q: Do you know the grade of the Officers?
A: I first saw a Captain and I saw a Commander, but I could not tell his rank. The Germans speak of a Commander and he ranks from a Captain up. This one had the Iron Cross around his neck and I gathered that he was a Knight of the Order of the Grand Cross.
Q: And you said there was a third Officer?
A: Yes; the third Officer was dressed in black. I cannot tell you his rank.
Q: Was he dressed in black or a dark blue?
A: Black, with a skull and crossbows on each side of his collar.
Q: What kind of headgear did these Officers wear?
A: They were wearing soft cloth hats with a stiff visor. Two Officers were wearing caps with stiff visors and the other one was wearing a field service cap.
Q: Can you remember what the others had on their collars?
A: I know that they were S.S. but I did not look at the man’s badge of rank.
Q: Are you familiar with the uniform of the S.S. troops?
A: Yes I am.
Q: Did you find out at any time the unit to which these men belonged?
A: On the left sleeve band of the soldiers was written ‘Adolf Hitler’ I think it was on the left sleeve but I am not certain.
Q: Was that on all the soldiers who were here on the afternoon of June 8th?
A: All those whom I noticed had ‘Adolf Hitler’ on their sleeves, but many of them had rain capes on and I could not say about them. I could not see what they had on their sleeves.
Q: If you were able to see any of the Germans again would you be able to identify them – I refer particularly to the Germans who escorted the prisoners past you – or any of the German Officers?
A: I could recognise the Officer that was dressed in black but not the soldiers that escorted the British soldiers or other soldiers who came into the house. It may be that I could recognise the other two Officers.
Monique Level (Daughter of Owner, age 20)
Q: Did any German troops or units arrive at this Château on the 8th of June 1944.
A: Yes, at noon on the 8th.
Q: Please state how many there were?
A: I have no idea. I don’t know what the total was, but I recall seeing about 50.
Q: How many Officers were there with them?
A: I saw three Officers; there may have been others.
Q: Can you tell what grade they were?
A: One was a Colonel, the other was a Captain and the third, I could not tell his rank but I think he was a lieutenant.
Q: Are you familiar with the insignia or badges of rank of German Officers?
A: Yes, I know the badges of rank of the regular German Army but I am not familiar with the S.S. insignias and ranks.
Q: How did you know that one of them was a Colonel?
A: We thought that he was a Colonel because he was commanding the unit and I am not definite but I seem to think that he had oak leaves on the collar of his tunic. He also had camouflaged clothing on, which made his identity of rank more difficult.
Q: Did this senior Officer wear any decorations?
A: I recognised his decoration as that of a Knight of the Order of the Iron Cross, and there was a further decoration hanging from the Iron Cross.
Q: Did any of the German Officers wear a black suit?
A: Yes the Captain wore a black suit.
Q: Did he have any marks on his uniform to show what unit he belonged to?
A: he had on his left sleeve ‘Adolf Hitler’.
Q: Do you think you could recognise or identify any on these Officers or soldiers if you ever saw them again?
A: I could well recognise the three Officers and at least one of the soldiers.
Points to ponder:
(1) The Officer in black – How could he have had ‘Adolf Hitler’ on his cuff title and skull and crossbows on his collar tabs?
(2) Even though von Reitzenstein was named by Howard Margolian as ‘Officer No 2’, there is no description given by any of the witnesses to corroborate this as will be apparent by their testimonies. The naming of von Reitzenstein came from Becker who said he took over Command when Bremer was wounded, (this was also supported by H Meyers account posted above) this does not mean he was the second Officer seen during the executions. There was another batch of prisoners found executed in the grounds, ones that were not seen by any of the witnesses but had been killed on the same day in the same manner per the autopsy reports – these may have been the ones that were alleged to have been killed in reprisal for Bremer’s wounding. The next posting regarding the time line will make all this clearer.
(3) Monique Level who was sure it was Wünsche in 1991, stated back in 1944 that the Commanding Officer ‘may’ have had Oak Leaves on his collar tabs and had something hanging from his RK. George Bernage picks up on this clue and cites it in his book as follows ‘This description seems to fit precisely to Kurt Meyer. But he has not been recognized’ ( 'Trois Jour en Enfer' page 99).
Why then does Bernage ignore this detail when he claims that the Commanding Officer had to be Wünsche? The key to anyone else but Bremer being the ‘Heavily built man’ lies in the timing of Bremer’s injury. As posted already, the testimony of all the witnesses stated that the artillery attack did not start on the Château until most of the POWs were known to have died (the time of death of the fourth batch was never known) both Becker and Hubert Meyer contend that Bremer was wounded after this time, can he be placed elsewhere that day and if so are the witnesses testimonies of seeing the RK on the Commanding Officer incorrect? But If they were correct, could it have really been Kurt Meyer there? During that day Meyer stated his location as follows:
‘On the afternoon of the 8th June I made a trip around the Regimental sector with the divisional commander, visiting the I/SS-Panzer Grenadier Regiment afterwards. Low flying aircraft were on our tail. I was glad to bring my commander back to my command post in one piece..’. (Grenadiers page 228)
When he returned to his HQ at the Abbey Ardenne, a plan of action was set in motion to attack Bretteville that night. Personally I think its highly implausible that Meyer would have been at the Château for the number of hours that the ‘Commander’ was seen that day (at least 3 hours) especially when things were so ‘hot’ in his own sector and because it seems apparent that Bremer was not wounded until that night. If Bremer had been wounded in the morning, there may have been a chance that K Meyer went to see what was happening at his HQ.
I don’t believe the Commander was Wünsche either, as Bernage’s evidence for that allegation is non-existent other than a very tenuous identification by someone 47 years after the event. I will post the time line and witness statements about what they saw and what time the POWs were being interrogated and the aftermath. Any thoughts or insights on what has already been posted are welcome.
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jan willem stokkers
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Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
Well to make it a bit more difficult or interesting
"During these attacks, Audrieu and Cristot were under artillery fire. At 19:00 hours Audrieu came under the most concentrated artillery fire which included ship's artillery from Argonaut, Orion and Ajax. Within one hour, village was destroyed. Around 21:00 hours the fire was shifted to the castle gardens south of the village were the staff and the staff-company of AA.12 was located." They were shot to pieces. This comes from the book Tilly-sur-Seulles 1944 from Stéphane Jacquet. The info from the ships artillery comes from "Narrative of Bombardement events"(Annexe 1 to Appendix C to Naval commander Force "G" n0.0301:6613 of 15th July 1944. So maybey KW Becker was wright with his time-frame?!
Gr.Jan Willem
"During these attacks, Audrieu and Cristot were under artillery fire. At 19:00 hours Audrieu came under the most concentrated artillery fire which included ship's artillery from Argonaut, Orion and Ajax. Within one hour, village was destroyed. Around 21:00 hours the fire was shifted to the castle gardens south of the village were the staff and the staff-company of AA.12 was located." They were shot to pieces. This comes from the book Tilly-sur-Seulles 1944 from Stéphane Jacquet. The info from the ships artillery comes from "Narrative of Bombardement events"(Annexe 1 to Appendix C to Naval commander Force "G" n0.0301:6613 of 15th July 1944. So maybey KW Becker was wright with his time-frame?!
Gr.Jan Willem
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jan willem stokkers
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Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
I was reading an interview i had with a 2.Kp. veteran who was involved in the search for Jura. Jura left in the early forenoon of the 8'th (it is more likely it was in the morning) and the rescue spähzugg under command of Walter Hauck left the afternoon of the 8'th. This was ordered by Gerd Bremer. The veteran also told me that the were under artillery attack almost the whole day and most of the time they were under there vehicles. The made holes in the ground and there panzerspäh was on top of it. So it is possible that in that period at afternoon time Bremer was wounded and that Reitzenstein ordered to shoot prisioners. Why would Palm tell lies on this wenn even by name he could tell who shot the POW"s?
Gr.Jan Willem
Gr.Jan Willem
Last edited by jan willem stokkers on 26 Mar 2015, 19:00, edited 1 time in total.
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jan willem stokkers
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Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
Concerning that there was no info on an officer with moustache i think we have to be clear that the photo of Bremer with the other 12.ss officers during the party was at 27-05 so less then 2 weeks before D-Day. So Bremer had plenty of time to have himself shaved and the AA.12 moved on the 6-6 in the morning. So lets say Bremer shaved, maybey for the last time at the 5'th in the morning. He would not have a moustache, well a reall moustache, the 8'th concerning the statements of the civilians. Also its good to know that Bremer was a bit of a snob. He was very keen on, for example, to have his booths clean and polished. I have an account of a young soldier who had to polish Bremers his booths during the normandy battles. He also was very keen on his cloths and everything had to be clean.
Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
Perhaps you could have a look at that interview again. The testimony from all witnesses at that Château was that the shelling did not start on the grounds until after 18.30pm - from Hubert Meyer's account though, the shelling of the village was intense before that so your contact may not necessarily have been in the Château grounds but in and around the village.jan willem stokkers wrote:The veteran also told me that the were under artillery attack almost the whole day and most of the time they were under there vehicles. The made holes in the ground and there panzerspäh was on top of it. So it is possible that in that period at afternoon time Bremer was wounded and that Reitzenstein ordered to shoot prisoners. Why would Palm tell lies on this when even by name he could tell who shot the POW"s?
The account of Palm's to Becker about von Reitzenstein executing POWs in reprisal for the wounding of Bremer could be explained by the finding of the 7 bodies whose execution had not been witnessed. But that is just supposition, we have to stick to the facts as much as we can. Hopefully I will have gathered the testimonies of all to post in the next few days and you will have more insight into the timeline of events.
In the meantime I have been able to track down the pages of Craig Luther's book 'Blood and Honor' that Howard Margolian cited in his book. I have posted the excerpt above, but just to recap, Margolian wrote:
....Word came that British tanks were massing on the Battalion's left flank ......he (Bremer) had to attend to his defences.....Under Bremer's reckless but effective leadership the 12th Recon Btln repulsed a frontal attack on the village of Audrieu by elements of a British Armoured Brigade .....by 4.00pm the recon troops had once more stabilised the front. Bremer returned to his command post shortly there after. Probably not by coincidence the massacre of prisoners resumed on his arrival ..." (pp 85/ 86 'Conduct Unbecoming')
I'm sure all who have followed these events will know why I consider this excerpt important - Margolian is stating that Bremer left the Château to take personal command of this action, this is information that could be crucial to corroborating his own involvement in the executions, the time the front is supposed to have been stabilised is 16.00 hrs - the third batch of prisoners were still alive at that time and were only executed approximately one hour after this, their dead bodies being seen by the gardeners son at 17.00hrs, these same 13 POWs were seen alive some 30 minutes earlier by a local farmer......... so finding this account of Bremer's movements is crucial to this timeline.
Margolian's citation for this paragraph was:
- page 225 'Conduct Unbecoming'
But I regret to report that pages 160-161 of Luther's 'Blood and Honor' do not state any details of either Bremer taking personal command of this action or an account of him returning to the Château. The only information on these pages is the Recon Btln's arrival at the Château that day, the picture of Bremer as posted above under the Sherman tank and this small excerpt:
- 'Blood and Honor'p160
So, a dead end in the search for Bremer's movements that day, which I admit is bitterly disappointing. If anyone else has actual proof and citation that he did leave the Château, please post.
Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
Timeline of events 8th June 1944-Château d'Audrieu
Points of Interest:
Dark Blue: The Command Post under a Sycamore Tree.
Red: The place on the road where the Officer in Black was observed during first batch of executions.
Light Blue: Where Monique Level stood to observe the first batch of prisoners being led to the woods.
Green: Place where the bodies from Batch I were found.
Yellow: The place where the bodies from Batch II were found.
Orange: Execution and burial site of batch III.
Purple: The area where the bodies from batch IV were found.
Pink spot: The Gardeners family home (Lanoue).
Olive Green: Place where the destroyed vehicles were found and also the direction in which the POWs from batch I were brought from to the Command Post. The Commander was also seen going in here after the first batch were executed and before the second were.
11.00-12.00pm
German troops arrive in the grounds of the Château d’Audrieu and set up a Command post at the rear under the branches of a Sycamore tree. Three Officers are observed by witnesses, one in Camo who had the RK, another in camo and an Officer in a black uniform. Telephone lines are connected to the Command post, armoured cars were bringing in wounded and defensive positions were set up around the grounds
24 Canadians (22 Royal Winnipeg Rifles, 2 Queens Own Rifles) and two British Soldiers (one each from the Durham light Infantry and the 50th Division) were captured between Brouay and Putot en Bassin by troops from the 26th Regiment and for reasons unknown were handed over to the Recon Btln while being marched to the rear. These prisoners were brought to the Château d’Audrieu between 12.00pm and 14.00hrs (‘Conduct Unbecoming’ – H Margolian, p 82)
14.00hrs-15.00hrs approx
4 witnesses, (Monique Level, Beatrice Delafon, Rene and Raymond Lanoue) observed three Allied POWs being brought from under the cover of the tree’s (Olive Green) on the right of the Château’s rear grounds and over to the Command post. None of the witnesses saw who was under the branches of the tree nor did they see what happened there. After some time (estimated between 15 to 30 minutes) all witnesses saw the POWs being marched in a single file out of the Command post under the escort of 1 NCO and 2 soldiers all dressed in camo. The POWs had no helmets or equipment, they passed the rear of the Chateau and along the path which led north into the woods. The Officer in Black was seen by Rene and Raymond Lanoue standing at point Z (Red) and he directed the party onwards with his hand. This Officer in Black then came back along the path to the Lanoue house (Pink) and ordered Rene to go into his house and close the windows, before he proceeded to the Command post. Having observed the escort party making its way along past the rear of the Château, Monique Level was curious to see where they were being brought, she followed along the path at a distance but could not see them through the trees. Presently she heard three shots being fired and then saw the escort party return to the Command post without the POWs and surmised what had happened. Beatrice, Rene and Raymond also heard these shots. On the 22nd of June, three bodies were found near this location (Green) by British troops – there were confirmed as Major Hodge, Fuller and Smith.
14.30hrs-15.30hrs approx
M. Level saw the Commander leave the Command post and walk over to the woods where the batch of prisoners had come from (Olive Green). At the same time, the Officer in Black came to talk to them about what to do in the event that the Château would be shelled. Some short time later, Beatrice Delafon was in the Attic and it was there that she observed four more POWs walking from South to North across the park. She could not confirm if they had come from the trees or the Command Post. These POWs were also under escort but were too far away for her to see any detail. M Level also saw these POWs from her bedroom window at the back of the Château, she also thought that there were four of them. Level left the bedroom and went downstairs, she did not hear any shots. B. Delafon however did hear the shots as she had been listening specifically for them. Three bodies were discovered together in the general direction of the last known location of these POWs (Yellow). No mention was made in the documents about the discrepancy of the witness account that there were four POWs observed. However, other bodies were found further along the path and there is a possibility that one of the POWs were shot further along or was somehow moved later or indeed that there had only been three shot in this second batch. The three identified were: Gold, McIntosh and Thomas – all had died from gunfire to the head with a small calibre pistol.
16.00 - 17.00hrs approx..
Local farmer Leon Leseigneur and his employee Eugene Buchart passed the walls of the Château at approximately 16.30hrs where they observed a group of Allied soldiers resting under guard, there were also Officers present, Buchart saw the Officer in Black there. When these two witnesses had made their way further along the path, they heard a volley of shots ring out. Later some soldiers including an Officer came and asked for a ladder to be brought to the Château. As they carried it back, they could not see prisoners at the wall, their view was obscured as to what was behind the wall. Later at approximately 17.00 hrs Raymond Lanoue went to find some missing pigs and found them among the dead bodies of multiple Allied soldiers at that same spot marked K. (Orange) He was reluctant to approach the pigs but a German soldier standing close by beckoned him to come saying that the POWs were dead. He went to tell the other residents what had happened, B Delafon told him to keep quiet about it and gave him some alcohol for the shock. The following morning, the residents approached the bodies and counted 13, they observed that they were Canadian and that they had all been left lying in a row. These bodies were shown to British troops who showed up at the Château later on the 9th of June.
18.30pm-21.40pm
An artillery barrage started on the grounds and the Command post, some German vehicles and an ammunition dump were hit. This barrage went on until approx. 21.40hrs. After this time, an Officer came to tell the inhabitants that the fighting was over and that they were leaving. They left some of the damaged vehicles behind. No POWs were observed leaving with these troops.
22.30pm Approx
An injured member of the same Btln was found at the Château gates in a wounded and delirious state, he claimed that the British were killing SS men and he said that the inhabitants would be killed too for harbouring him, when challenged by the inhabitants about this, he maintained that a German Major had been shot and severely wounded by the British that day. He told them that his mother would not be able to take the news if he died, that he had previously fought in Russia and that he was fed up with the war. He asked that they destroy his papers and SS insignia, these stated that his name was Ernst Ublander or Ablander. He was carried into the Château on a door and patched up. Later, he was handed over to the British when they arrived at the Château. George Bernage in his book claimed that he may have been left behind inadvertently by the retreating troops. The inquiry team recommended that he be found and questioned but there is no record that they ever did find him. The following morning, Monique Level showed a British Officer where the 13 bodies were too be found.
The German troops had not gone too far away however, and it was thought by the residents that an outpost of sorts still operated in the grounds. Over the following weeks both Allied and German troops were seen in and around the grounds until finally at the end of June the Allied front line extended past the Château. It was after this that a thorough search was made of the grounds and that a further 7 bodies with included the 2 British soldiers were discovered at points P-V (purple). No witnesses had observed when these executions happened. However the autopsies conducted on all the bodies showed similar wounds and states of decomposition and it was surmised that all had died on the same day.
On the 8th, German soldiers had come in and out of the Kitchen area and interacted with the witnesses. One showed them a revolver and indicated that he had taken part in the killing. Another came at approx. 17.00 and said that he was smoking good English cigarettes which he had taken from the POWs who were dead. The Officer in Black interacted on numerous occasions with the witnesses. His movements have been covered in the ‘Willi Hansmann’ thread http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 8&t=206233
Other witnesses were called to testify including an Allied intelligence officer Capt J Bornoff. From paperwork and vehicles searched he identified that the unit at the Chateau on June 8th was the Rec Btln of the 12th HJ Division – the signals unit and Headquarters Kp. He also found Letters addressed to Unsf Schenk 58286 /(SS-Pz.Aufkl. Abt. 12). Initially Schenk was a person of interest to the investigation team but he was never interviewed. It was felt at that time too (July 44) that the Commander with the RK could only have been Bremer. The Officer in Blacks identity was a mystery to them and there was some suspicion that he was a Panzer liaison Officer. It was only later when Karl Walter Beck was captured that some more names were added to the pot. Becker was not at the Château but arrived at his HQ the following day and was told what had happened.
This is part of his testimony :
“....he told me that I had not witnessed the worst and that I still looked very clean and neat. I asked him what he meant by that and he told me that on the preceding day, during an artillery bombardment on the Battle-HQ, which was situated in the castle, the comd, among others, had been hit. It was generally assumed that the position must have been betrayed as, otherwise the artillery-fire could not have been so accurate.
During this conversation O’Lt PALM joined us. He told us that on the previous day----after the comd had been evacuated to hospital together with the other casualties ---Hpt. Stufue. V Reitzenstein, who was then commanding the Bn had given the order to shoot prisoners as a reprisal. These prisoners could not have been evacuated to the rear on account of the heavy fire to which we were exposed. Moreover, there was no desire (on the part of the Germans) to do so. It was generally said that the enemy was taking no prisoners either".
….".I asked PALM who had committed this act and I was told it had been O’Scharfur. STUN and men of the M/C DR section. STUN had been particularly eager to distinguish himself by committing this atrocity……
In the morning of the following day, 11 June 44, the Div Comd, Brigfue Witt arrived at the Bn together with Stubafue Bremer, who had not yet recovered from his injuries. The Bn had not yet been moved, with the exception of a few vehicle. The Div Comd handed out decorations for bravery to successful anti-tank troops. During the afternoon ........…I was lying in a weapon-pit about 5-6 m from the Comd’s dug-out. During the fighting 3 prisoners were brought up. They were the crew of a tank because they wore black berets. I heard O’Scharfue STUN ask the Comd if he could take the prisoners away, to which the Comd replied with a laugh: ‘Oh no, old chap, out of the question, for I know your methods’ (‘Nee, mein Lieber, kommt nicht in Frage, den ich kenne Deine methode’)
This caused me to ask my neighbours for the meaning of these words and I was told that this STUN already had ‘several’ on his conscience". I do not know when these prisoners were taken away, as I was ordered out to the left soon afterwards, where our own tanks were attacking.....
.... In the late afternoon of June 9th, an assault troop commanded by the Adjt O’Stufue Bucheim, made its way toward the castle in order to bring back some undamaged vehicles which had been left behind by un-conscientious drivers. I heard that such expeditions were repeated twice in the following nights but without success...”
(TS26/856 - pp 274-276)
Becker’s testimony put some more names on the wanted list, those of Stun and von Reitzenstein, it is not known how Hansmann was also suspected, his photograph had been found on Becker but no information was contained in Becker’s interrogation to suggest that he was the Officer in Black, the investigation team only noted that he was known to wear a black uniform and was a person of interest. Becker’s testimony also confirmed that Bremer had been wounded ‘at the castle’ this ruled out the possibility that he was wounded earlier that day and that being the case, he was the Commander in charge when the first three batches of prisoners were executed.
In the absence of any hard or corroborating evidence that this Officer with the RK was Meyer, Wünsche or indeed Witt, it would not be a stretch to allege that the holder of the RK was indeed Bremer. The identity of the second Officer however is not so clear, there was very little description given about him by witnesses other than that he wore camo, it’s not even clear if he was still in the grounds after the initial arrival of troops. von Reitzenstein was only a person of interest due to the allegation that he executed prisoners after Bremer’s wounding. This however was only the ‘hearsay’ evidence of Becker and if that indeed was true, it still would only prove that von Reitzenstein was there after 18.30pm for sure. There is a possibility that the 7 bodies found were executed after the wounding but there is no testimony given by anyone to determine at what time these killings happened.
The question would be, who was most likely to be found with Bremer at the command post,would it have been most likely von Reitzenstein or perhaps Bremer's adjutant or another ? The fact that there was engagements going on outside the Château has to be kept in mind also, what Kps and Officers were engaged in this fighting? Does anyone have details of their movements as this would rule them out as suspects?
Further posts will be made regarding the investigation teams search for culprits and why this case was never pursued.
- WO219/5045p91
Dark Blue: The Command Post under a Sycamore Tree.
Red: The place on the road where the Officer in Black was observed during first batch of executions.
Light Blue: Where Monique Level stood to observe the first batch of prisoners being led to the woods.
Green: Place where the bodies from Batch I were found.
Yellow: The place where the bodies from Batch II were found.
Orange: Execution and burial site of batch III.
Purple: The area where the bodies from batch IV were found.
Pink spot: The Gardeners family home (Lanoue).
Olive Green: Place where the destroyed vehicles were found and also the direction in which the POWs from batch I were brought from to the Command Post. The Commander was also seen going in here after the first batch were executed and before the second were.
11.00-12.00pm
German troops arrive in the grounds of the Château d’Audrieu and set up a Command post at the rear under the branches of a Sycamore tree. Three Officers are observed by witnesses, one in Camo who had the RK, another in camo and an Officer in a black uniform. Telephone lines are connected to the Command post, armoured cars were bringing in wounded and defensive positions were set up around the grounds
24 Canadians (22 Royal Winnipeg Rifles, 2 Queens Own Rifles) and two British Soldiers (one each from the Durham light Infantry and the 50th Division) were captured between Brouay and Putot en Bassin by troops from the 26th Regiment and for reasons unknown were handed over to the Recon Btln while being marched to the rear. These prisoners were brought to the Château d’Audrieu between 12.00pm and 14.00hrs (‘Conduct Unbecoming’ – H Margolian, p 82)
14.00hrs-15.00hrs approx
4 witnesses, (Monique Level, Beatrice Delafon, Rene and Raymond Lanoue) observed three Allied POWs being brought from under the cover of the tree’s (Olive Green) on the right of the Château’s rear grounds and over to the Command post. None of the witnesses saw who was under the branches of the tree nor did they see what happened there. After some time (estimated between 15 to 30 minutes) all witnesses saw the POWs being marched in a single file out of the Command post under the escort of 1 NCO and 2 soldiers all dressed in camo. The POWs had no helmets or equipment, they passed the rear of the Chateau and along the path which led north into the woods. The Officer in Black was seen by Rene and Raymond Lanoue standing at point Z (Red) and he directed the party onwards with his hand. This Officer in Black then came back along the path to the Lanoue house (Pink) and ordered Rene to go into his house and close the windows, before he proceeded to the Command post. Having observed the escort party making its way along past the rear of the Château, Monique Level was curious to see where they were being brought, she followed along the path at a distance but could not see them through the trees. Presently she heard three shots being fired and then saw the escort party return to the Command post without the POWs and surmised what had happened. Beatrice, Rene and Raymond also heard these shots. On the 22nd of June, three bodies were found near this location (Green) by British troops – there were confirmed as Major Hodge, Fuller and Smith.
14.30hrs-15.30hrs approx
M. Level saw the Commander leave the Command post and walk over to the woods where the batch of prisoners had come from (Olive Green). At the same time, the Officer in Black came to talk to them about what to do in the event that the Château would be shelled. Some short time later, Beatrice Delafon was in the Attic and it was there that she observed four more POWs walking from South to North across the park. She could not confirm if they had come from the trees or the Command Post. These POWs were also under escort but were too far away for her to see any detail. M Level also saw these POWs from her bedroom window at the back of the Château, she also thought that there were four of them. Level left the bedroom and went downstairs, she did not hear any shots. B. Delafon however did hear the shots as she had been listening specifically for them. Three bodies were discovered together in the general direction of the last known location of these POWs (Yellow). No mention was made in the documents about the discrepancy of the witness account that there were four POWs observed. However, other bodies were found further along the path and there is a possibility that one of the POWs were shot further along or was somehow moved later or indeed that there had only been three shot in this second batch. The three identified were: Gold, McIntosh and Thomas – all had died from gunfire to the head with a small calibre pistol.
16.00 - 17.00hrs approx..
Local farmer Leon Leseigneur and his employee Eugene Buchart passed the walls of the Château at approximately 16.30hrs where they observed a group of Allied soldiers resting under guard, there were also Officers present, Buchart saw the Officer in Black there. When these two witnesses had made their way further along the path, they heard a volley of shots ring out. Later some soldiers including an Officer came and asked for a ladder to be brought to the Château. As they carried it back, they could not see prisoners at the wall, their view was obscured as to what was behind the wall. Later at approximately 17.00 hrs Raymond Lanoue went to find some missing pigs and found them among the dead bodies of multiple Allied soldiers at that same spot marked K. (Orange) He was reluctant to approach the pigs but a German soldier standing close by beckoned him to come saying that the POWs were dead. He went to tell the other residents what had happened, B Delafon told him to keep quiet about it and gave him some alcohol for the shock. The following morning, the residents approached the bodies and counted 13, they observed that they were Canadian and that they had all been left lying in a row. These bodies were shown to British troops who showed up at the Château later on the 9th of June.
18.30pm-21.40pm
An artillery barrage started on the grounds and the Command post, some German vehicles and an ammunition dump were hit. This barrage went on until approx. 21.40hrs. After this time, an Officer came to tell the inhabitants that the fighting was over and that they were leaving. They left some of the damaged vehicles behind. No POWs were observed leaving with these troops.
22.30pm Approx
An injured member of the same Btln was found at the Château gates in a wounded and delirious state, he claimed that the British were killing SS men and he said that the inhabitants would be killed too for harbouring him, when challenged by the inhabitants about this, he maintained that a German Major had been shot and severely wounded by the British that day. He told them that his mother would not be able to take the news if he died, that he had previously fought in Russia and that he was fed up with the war. He asked that they destroy his papers and SS insignia, these stated that his name was Ernst Ublander or Ablander. He was carried into the Château on a door and patched up. Later, he was handed over to the British when they arrived at the Château. George Bernage in his book claimed that he may have been left behind inadvertently by the retreating troops. The inquiry team recommended that he be found and questioned but there is no record that they ever did find him. The following morning, Monique Level showed a British Officer where the 13 bodies were too be found.
The German troops had not gone too far away however, and it was thought by the residents that an outpost of sorts still operated in the grounds. Over the following weeks both Allied and German troops were seen in and around the grounds until finally at the end of June the Allied front line extended past the Château. It was after this that a thorough search was made of the grounds and that a further 7 bodies with included the 2 British soldiers were discovered at points P-V (purple). No witnesses had observed when these executions happened. However the autopsies conducted on all the bodies showed similar wounds and states of decomposition and it was surmised that all had died on the same day.
On the 8th, German soldiers had come in and out of the Kitchen area and interacted with the witnesses. One showed them a revolver and indicated that he had taken part in the killing. Another came at approx. 17.00 and said that he was smoking good English cigarettes which he had taken from the POWs who were dead. The Officer in Black interacted on numerous occasions with the witnesses. His movements have been covered in the ‘Willi Hansmann’ thread http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 8&t=206233
Other witnesses were called to testify including an Allied intelligence officer Capt J Bornoff. From paperwork and vehicles searched he identified that the unit at the Chateau on June 8th was the Rec Btln of the 12th HJ Division – the signals unit and Headquarters Kp. He also found Letters addressed to Unsf Schenk 58286 /(SS-Pz.Aufkl. Abt. 12). Initially Schenk was a person of interest to the investigation team but he was never interviewed. It was felt at that time too (July 44) that the Commander with the RK could only have been Bremer. The Officer in Blacks identity was a mystery to them and there was some suspicion that he was a Panzer liaison Officer. It was only later when Karl Walter Beck was captured that some more names were added to the pot. Becker was not at the Château but arrived at his HQ the following day and was told what had happened.
This is part of his testimony :
“....he told me that I had not witnessed the worst and that I still looked very clean and neat. I asked him what he meant by that and he told me that on the preceding day, during an artillery bombardment on the Battle-HQ, which was situated in the castle, the comd, among others, had been hit. It was generally assumed that the position must have been betrayed as, otherwise the artillery-fire could not have been so accurate.
During this conversation O’Lt PALM joined us. He told us that on the previous day----after the comd had been evacuated to hospital together with the other casualties ---Hpt. Stufue. V Reitzenstein, who was then commanding the Bn had given the order to shoot prisoners as a reprisal. These prisoners could not have been evacuated to the rear on account of the heavy fire to which we were exposed. Moreover, there was no desire (on the part of the Germans) to do so. It was generally said that the enemy was taking no prisoners either".
….".I asked PALM who had committed this act and I was told it had been O’Scharfur. STUN and men of the M/C DR section. STUN had been particularly eager to distinguish himself by committing this atrocity……
In the morning of the following day, 11 June 44, the Div Comd, Brigfue Witt arrived at the Bn together with Stubafue Bremer, who had not yet recovered from his injuries. The Bn had not yet been moved, with the exception of a few vehicle. The Div Comd handed out decorations for bravery to successful anti-tank troops. During the afternoon ........…I was lying in a weapon-pit about 5-6 m from the Comd’s dug-out. During the fighting 3 prisoners were brought up. They were the crew of a tank because they wore black berets. I heard O’Scharfue STUN ask the Comd if he could take the prisoners away, to which the Comd replied with a laugh: ‘Oh no, old chap, out of the question, for I know your methods’ (‘Nee, mein Lieber, kommt nicht in Frage, den ich kenne Deine methode’)
This caused me to ask my neighbours for the meaning of these words and I was told that this STUN already had ‘several’ on his conscience". I do not know when these prisoners were taken away, as I was ordered out to the left soon afterwards, where our own tanks were attacking.....
.... In the late afternoon of June 9th, an assault troop commanded by the Adjt O’Stufue Bucheim, made its way toward the castle in order to bring back some undamaged vehicles which had been left behind by un-conscientious drivers. I heard that such expeditions were repeated twice in the following nights but without success...”
(TS26/856 - pp 274-276)
Becker’s testimony put some more names on the wanted list, those of Stun and von Reitzenstein, it is not known how Hansmann was also suspected, his photograph had been found on Becker but no information was contained in Becker’s interrogation to suggest that he was the Officer in Black, the investigation team only noted that he was known to wear a black uniform and was a person of interest. Becker’s testimony also confirmed that Bremer had been wounded ‘at the castle’ this ruled out the possibility that he was wounded earlier that day and that being the case, he was the Commander in charge when the first three batches of prisoners were executed.
In the absence of any hard or corroborating evidence that this Officer with the RK was Meyer, Wünsche or indeed Witt, it would not be a stretch to allege that the holder of the RK was indeed Bremer. The identity of the second Officer however is not so clear, there was very little description given about him by witnesses other than that he wore camo, it’s not even clear if he was still in the grounds after the initial arrival of troops. von Reitzenstein was only a person of interest due to the allegation that he executed prisoners after Bremer’s wounding. This however was only the ‘hearsay’ evidence of Becker and if that indeed was true, it still would only prove that von Reitzenstein was there after 18.30pm for sure. There is a possibility that the 7 bodies found were executed after the wounding but there is no testimony given by anyone to determine at what time these killings happened.
The question would be, who was most likely to be found with Bremer at the command post,would it have been most likely von Reitzenstein or perhaps Bremer's adjutant or another ? The fact that there was engagements going on outside the Château has to be kept in mind also, what Kps and Officers were engaged in this fighting? Does anyone have details of their movements as this would rule them out as suspects?
Further posts will be made regarding the investigation teams search for culprits and why this case was never pursued.
-
Rob - wssob2
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Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
What can I say other than Seaburn, I am in awe of your prodigious research skills.
Well done!
Well done!
Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
This is an excerpt from the deposition of Franz Rautschka (D.O.B. - 26.12 1918) member of the 12th HJ div, on 27.8.1948 - This was actually given in relation to the Fonteay-le-Pesnel case but it also included details that are pertinent to the Chateau d'Audrieu case here.
There is one identifiable error in this account and that is the date listed as June 9th. But this is most likely a mixing up of dates by Rautschka as he goes on to recount details from the Fontenay case which also happened on the 8th of June, also Bremer would not have been seen at the front on that date as he been hospitalised on the evening of the 8th.
Although Rautschka uses the term 'house' - the location described is more than likely the Chateau d'Audrieu, the presence of Stun also corroborates the story that Becker was told when he arrived at the HQ on the 9th. While the identity of the 5 captives is not known, it is very possible that these were the 5 Canadians whose execution was not witnessed by those living at the Chateau. These bodies were found with two British ones when the Chateau was finally liberated.
As there were no direct hits on the Chateau until after 18.30 hrs approx, per the witnesses, its not clear where exactly Rautschka was when the barrage that he recounts started, certainly the village was pounded heavily that day and an Allied attack was repulsed near the Chateau that afternoon per the except posted from 'Blood and Honor' earlier. If this testimony is to be believed, its the only eye witness account that names Bremer at the scene that day.
There is one identifiable error in this account and that is the date listed as June 9th. But this is most likely a mixing up of dates by Rautschka as he goes on to recount details from the Fontenay case which also happened on the 8th of June, also Bremer would not have been seen at the front on that date as he been hospitalised on the evening of the 8th.
Although Rautschka uses the term 'house' - the location described is more than likely the Chateau d'Audrieu, the presence of Stun also corroborates the story that Becker was told when he arrived at the HQ on the 9th. While the identity of the 5 captives is not known, it is very possible that these were the 5 Canadians whose execution was not witnessed by those living at the Chateau. These bodies were found with two British ones when the Chateau was finally liberated.
As there were no direct hits on the Chateau until after 18.30 hrs approx, per the witnesses, its not clear where exactly Rautschka was when the barrage that he recounts started, certainly the village was pounded heavily that day and an Allied attack was repulsed near the Chateau that afternoon per the except posted from 'Blood and Honor' earlier. If this testimony is to be believed, its the only eye witness account that names Bremer at the scene that day.
- WO309/1172-p193
- WO_309_1172_0193.jpg (138.59 KiB) Viewed 1981 times
Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
There were many names deemed by the Canadian court of inquiry as ‘persons of interest’ in the Château d’Audrieu case, these names had been culled from the evidence of Karl Walter Becker (Bremer, von Reitzenstein, Stun, Palm) and from paperwork found in vehicles that had been abandoned at the Château (Schenk) – Following their inquiries the names of those suspected of carrying our unlawful killing against Allied Soldiers was entered into the record at the Nuremberg trials - the following is an excerpt from those records:
"Trial of the major war criminals before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 14 November 1945-1 October 1946"
Proceedings of a Court of Inquiry assembled in the field, pursuant to orders of the SUPREME COMMANDER ALLIED EXPEDITIONARY FORCE, dated 20 August 1944 and pursuant to letters of Supreme Headquarters. Allied Expeditionary Force, CAP 900/10/3 dated 18 August 1944,GAP 900/10 dated 21 August 1944 and pursuant also to the order dated 11 February 1945 and GAP 000.5—2(25) dated 8 March 1945 referring all cases affecting the:
12 SS PANZER DIVISION (HITLER-JUGEND)
FINDINGS OF THE COURT
1. (a) That seven cases of violations of the laws and usages of warfare and the terms of the Geneva Conventions, 1929, by members of the German Armed Forces have been established.
(b) That these cases occurred between the 7 and 17 June 1944, in NORMANDY, FRANCE.
(c) That the victims of such violations were all unarmed Allied prisoners of war in uniform, many of whom had been previously wounded, and none of whom had resisted, endeavoured to escape or otherwise committed any act to justify their captors in killing them. ...............
.....(c) Except as set forth in paragraph 4 below, there is no evidence directly implicating personally any of the battalion commanders, officers or non commissioned officers of the Division by name.
4. (a) That there is, however, circumstantial evidence directly implicating personally the following officers:
Sturmbannführer GERHARDT BREMER, Hauptsturmfuhrer VON REITZENSTEIN and Obersturmführers SCHENK and KIRCHNER, and the following noncommissioned officers: Stabscharfuhrer HAGETORN (said to have been killed) Unterscharführer HUGO WOLF.
(Source: VOLUME XXXI Page 458/2997-PS)
It would appear that there was no evidence that could be used against Stun and Hansmann as their names were not included. Although there was no direct evidence that Schenk or Kirchner had taken part in the executions, it seems that they were included as their presence there that day could be proven. Hagetorn was not named specifically for this case but as the spieß who had read out an order prior to battle that no prisoners were to be taken. This alleged order was part of the case used against Kurt Meyer at his trial. I have not seen any evidence against Hugo Wolf to indicate why he was named, nor am I aware of his rank or unit.
The investigation team then set out to track down these named individuals in order to question them and possibly then charge them for their culpability in the deaths of the Allied Soldiers at the Château on June 8th.
"Trial of the major war criminals before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 14 November 1945-1 October 1946"
Proceedings of a Court of Inquiry assembled in the field, pursuant to orders of the SUPREME COMMANDER ALLIED EXPEDITIONARY FORCE, dated 20 August 1944 and pursuant to letters of Supreme Headquarters. Allied Expeditionary Force, CAP 900/10/3 dated 18 August 1944,GAP 900/10 dated 21 August 1944 and pursuant also to the order dated 11 February 1945 and GAP 000.5—2(25) dated 8 March 1945 referring all cases affecting the:
12 SS PANZER DIVISION (HITLER-JUGEND)
FINDINGS OF THE COURT
1. (a) That seven cases of violations of the laws and usages of warfare and the terms of the Geneva Conventions, 1929, by members of the German Armed Forces have been established.
(b) That these cases occurred between the 7 and 17 June 1944, in NORMANDY, FRANCE.
(c) That the victims of such violations were all unarmed Allied prisoners of war in uniform, many of whom had been previously wounded, and none of whom had resisted, endeavoured to escape or otherwise committed any act to justify their captors in killing them. ...............
.....(c) Except as set forth in paragraph 4 below, there is no evidence directly implicating personally any of the battalion commanders, officers or non commissioned officers of the Division by name.
4. (a) That there is, however, circumstantial evidence directly implicating personally the following officers:
Sturmbannführer GERHARDT BREMER, Hauptsturmfuhrer VON REITZENSTEIN and Obersturmführers SCHENK and KIRCHNER, and the following noncommissioned officers: Stabscharfuhrer HAGETORN (said to have been killed) Unterscharführer HUGO WOLF.
(Source: VOLUME XXXI Page 458/2997-PS)
It would appear that there was no evidence that could be used against Stun and Hansmann as their names were not included. Although there was no direct evidence that Schenk or Kirchner had taken part in the executions, it seems that they were included as their presence there that day could be proven. Hagetorn was not named specifically for this case but as the spieß who had read out an order prior to battle that no prisoners were to be taken. This alleged order was part of the case used against Kurt Meyer at his trial. I have not seen any evidence against Hugo Wolf to indicate why he was named, nor am I aware of his rank or unit.
The investigation team then set out to track down these named individuals in order to question them and possibly then charge them for their culpability in the deaths of the Allied Soldiers at the Château on June 8th.
Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
At war’s end, three of the four named suspects in ‘Conduct Unbecoming’ - Bremer, von Reitzenstein and Hansmann were all in Allied custody. I have not found any evidence that the fourth, Stun was ever found or questioned. The details of what happened to him should be contained in the French files on Ascq. Hansmann escaped from Allied custody in 1947 – see http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 3#p1943813
What Bremer and von Reitzenstein had to say about that day would add two new names to the list of culprits.
Gerd von Reitzenstein
In the evidence of Karl Walter Becker (who arrived at the AA HQ on the 9th of June) he stated that he was told von Reitzenstein was put in command of the AA Btln after Bremer was wounded during the shelling on the ‘castle’ the previous day – he was also told that von Reitzenstein had ordered the execution of the POWs in reprisal for the wounding of Bremer. The evidence of the eyewitnesses does not corroborate this account as they definitively stated that 19 of the POWs had already been executed before the shelling that wounded Bremer started. However, there were another 7 other bodies found in the grounds after it was liberated and although they appear to have been executed in the same manner as the others, there were no eyewitness testimony to state when this had happened
von Reitzenstein was moved from American to French custody much to the chagrin of the investigating team. Many letters flew back and forward over this issue, however the British were informed that the French had put in a prior request for him as he was wanted for questioning in relation to the Ascq atrocity. There is no interrogation document of his in the Audrieu file but there is a letter from his legal team that sheds light on his account of what happened that day. In this letter it states that multiple people had alleged that von Reitzenstein was present when the order to execute the prisoners was given, intriguingly this evidence was not placed in any of the files I have seen.
This letter is dated August 1948 :
So it would appear that von Reitzenstein confirms that Bremer was in command that day but he refuses to explicitly name him as he claims he himself was not present during the shooting.
Gerd Bremer
Bremer was held in French custody and never made it into British hands to answer questions on his actions that day. The British request for his extradition was refused by the French as they maintained that they did not consider the evidence against Bremer to be ‘strong’ (WO311/738-p11). It would appear that the French had questioned Bremer about his participation at the Château that day and that he had claimed that he was in hospital when the executions occurred. The French do not seem to have had any interest in checking this out as the testimony of eye witnesses would have shown that the POWs were already dead when Bremer went to hospital. Bremer did however helpfully name those responsible as this translated letter from the French shows: (you will note that the French list the Canadians as 'Airmen' in error)
It is not clear to me why Bremer would name Aust, perhaps this man was dead or did not exist. But there was no evidence as yet seen to put a unit from the 26th Regiment at the Château that day. Aust sunsequently became of 'person of interest' to the investigation team, solely on this allegation. But he was not the only person Bremer accused – he also implicated his adjutant Bucheim who was also held in Allied custody post war. In a letter from the Legal team dated 9th April 1948, the following is of interest:
It would appear that Bucheim and Bremer were placing the blame on each other. IMO, I strongly suspect that Bucheim was the second officer seen at the Château that day. As adjutant, he should have been in close proximity to Bremer, however, as the commanding officer of the AA Btln, Bremer would have been wholly culpable for what happened to the POWs.
It would also seem that Bremer’s loyalty to the men under his command and to others in his division was somewhat lacking unlike von Reitzenstein who languished in prison due to his silence in the matter.
What Bremer and von Reitzenstein had to say about that day would add two new names to the list of culprits.
Gerd von Reitzenstein
In the evidence of Karl Walter Becker (who arrived at the AA HQ on the 9th of June) he stated that he was told von Reitzenstein was put in command of the AA Btln after Bremer was wounded during the shelling on the ‘castle’ the previous day – he was also told that von Reitzenstein had ordered the execution of the POWs in reprisal for the wounding of Bremer. The evidence of the eyewitnesses does not corroborate this account as they definitively stated that 19 of the POWs had already been executed before the shelling that wounded Bremer started. However, there were another 7 other bodies found in the grounds after it was liberated and although they appear to have been executed in the same manner as the others, there were no eyewitness testimony to state when this had happened
von Reitzenstein was moved from American to French custody much to the chagrin of the investigating team. Many letters flew back and forward over this issue, however the British were informed that the French had put in a prior request for him as he was wanted for questioning in relation to the Ascq atrocity. There is no interrogation document of his in the Audrieu file but there is a letter from his legal team that sheds light on his account of what happened that day. In this letter it states that multiple people had alleged that von Reitzenstein was present when the order to execute the prisoners was given, intriguingly this evidence was not placed in any of the files I have seen.
This letter is dated August 1948 :
- wo311/738-p9
- WO_311_738_0009-crop.JPG (181.78 KiB) Viewed 1898 times
Gerd Bremer
Bremer was held in French custody and never made it into British hands to answer questions on his actions that day. The British request for his extradition was refused by the French as they maintained that they did not consider the evidence against Bremer to be ‘strong’ (WO311/738-p11). It would appear that the French had questioned Bremer about his participation at the Château that day and that he had claimed that he was in hospital when the executions occurred. The French do not seem to have had any interest in checking this out as the testimony of eye witnesses would have shown that the POWs were already dead when Bremer went to hospital. Bremer did however helpfully name those responsible as this translated letter from the French shows: (you will note that the French list the Canadians as 'Airmen' in error)
- wo311/738-p4
- wo311/738-p33
It would also seem that Bremer’s loyalty to the men under his command and to others in his division was somewhat lacking unlike von Reitzenstein who languished in prison due to his silence in the matter.
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jan willem stokkers
- Member
- Posts: 418
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- Location: Netherlands
Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
I wonder what happend to Buchhheim after he got wounded in Normandy.
About Bremer many of the LSSAH/HJ AA. veterans i spoke to did not have nice words on Bremer. He was sh*t.
Gr.JW
About Bremer many of the LSSAH/HJ AA. veterans i spoke to did not have nice words on Bremer. He was sh*t.
Gr.JW
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jan willem stokkers
- Member
- Posts: 418
- Joined: 04 Apr 2002, 00:02
- Location: Netherlands
Re: Was Max Wünsche and not Gerd Bremer in Command at the Château d’Audrieu 8.6.1944?
Is there more info on this Rautschka because i don't have any idea which Kp. he was is!
Gr.JW
Gr.JW