Photo of a Massacre?

[Soldat222]

This photo is from the collection of Dan Lenchner. In the Vice article it appeared it he described it as showing a rape and massacre of civilians by German troops. Of course this is possible but I was wondering if anybody has seen this photo before or knows anything more about it? Based on the jackboots and the Panzer III/Stug it appears to be an earlier war photo to me.

[4thskorpion]

From the Vice interview:

VICE: I see a massacre.
Yes, a little massacre, with what I believe is a rape. This is surely a woman with her babushka. She's laid on this table with her legs splayed, and she's been made a little comfortable with some straw under her head. I think everybody's dead here: bodies, bodies, bodies. And, the Germans are done now. They're heading to what looks like a small train station. Their backs are all turned away. "We've done our work and now we're leaving."

What might be most disturbing of all is this detail of putting the straw under the woman's head. It looks like an attempt to make her comfortable as they raped and killed her. It seems like a recognition of her humanity.
Also, it looks like this dead man has his arm around this person here, in a protective pose.

As if he could shield them from bullets.
As I said, there's nothing on the back of this photograph, but the story is very clearly there. I don't think we have to read too much into it.

And yet, it's hard not to project, isn't it? This is not so different from the kind of war photography that we're all familiar with...
Right, this almost could have been taken by Robert Capa.

The composition is excellent and the focus is razor sharp.
That's right. One thing you can say about the Nazis is that they went to war with good cameras. They didn't go with any goddamn instamatics. They went with Leicas: good cameras with good lenses. You can see the number on the train. You can see the blades of grass. You can see the dead man's eyes.

It's similar to a Robert Capa, as you say, but—and this goes back to projection—knowing who took this picture gives it an intimacy that takes it beyond photojournalism. The photographer is part of the photograph. That almost gives it the quality of a family snapshot, except instead of standing and smiling, everyone is dead.
And then, the question you'll never answer: why did they take this picture?

Why do you think?
Sometimes you wonder, are they proud? Who knows. This I have no answer for.

Well, they certainly didn't take it for your benefit. There's something profoundly subversive about this ending up in your hands. I mean, the photographer could never have even imagined your existence.
No. But, who was it meant for? His superior officer, his friends, his wife, his children?

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/nazi-er ... ty-of-evil

[seaburn]

I am quite shocked that Daniel Lenchner would weave a whole story out of this photo while admitting there was no writing on the back of it to explain exactly what went on here. Nothing to indicate if these soldiers came across this scene or created it. While he could be spot on in his suspicions, it's this type of speculation that leads to fiction being translated into fact when re-quoted elsewhere, which in my book is a disservice to Historical accuracy.

[GregSingh]

Locomotive seems to be of Austrian design, Polish made Tr12.
Before September 1939 there were 142 of them, all in south and south-eastern Poland: 26 in Kraków area , 39 in Lwów (now Lviv) area and 77 in Stanisławów (now Ivano-Frankivsk) area.
In September/October 1939 those in Kraków area were taken by Germans and used in Silesia (Oppeln area). The rest were taken by Soviets.

Original Polish markings Tr12-137 are still visible, although Polish emblem seems to be scratched or covered.
It is still possible photo was taken during 1939 Polish campaign.

Closer look at Panzer III might provide a definitive answer, as there was no Stug's in 1939 Polish campaign. I can't really see if it's a Stug or Panzer.

Here is identical Tr12 in Soviet service with markings in Cyrillic and Soviet emblem.

ex-Polish Tr12 in Soviet service

[yabint]

Another explanation for the straw pillow could be that someone tried to give the woman first aid or they came across her in her last moments and tried ease her passing in some small manner. It could also explain why she is on the table in the first place. Other observations missing are the motorcycle with side car behind the tree, the booted leg in the foreground on the right and there appears to be another body on the ground by the train, to the right of the group of German soldiers.

I can't see the turret of the Panzer III is it possible that this is a re-cycled chassis used as a recovery vehicle or other platform?

A sad picture none the less.

[StefanSiverud]

It might be, but it would appear Mr. Lenchner suffers from a highly theatrical disposition and is keen to dream up dramatic scenarios for any photo he sees.

"I’m so sensitive that I occasionally see swastikas where there are none."
I think this sentence in the same article says it all.

Knowing the place and date would be necessary to say anything with any certainty.

[TH Albright]

I am quite shocked that Daniel Lenchner would weave a whole story out of this photo while admitting there was no writing on the back of it to explain exactly what went on here. Nothing to indicate if these soldiers came across this scene or created it. While he could be spot on in his suspicions, it's this type of speculation that leads to fiction being translated into fact when re-quoted elsewhere, which in my book is a disservice to Historical accuracy.

really agree with Seaburn on this..especially after looking at the link....this smacks of a potential cut-and-paste use of photos to further his story line, which may indeed be compelling...but more compelling is actual accuracy, like the GD division film and photo coverage of executions in Serbia in 1941...in that footage, one actually sees what is going on and can make some judgements based on the visuals.

[mil-archive]

I would be interested to know the source of the image, whether it was picked up on ebay, at a flea market or as part of a photograph album or estate.
The absence of context leaves it vulnerable to anyone with an agenda to project onto it. It would also help of course to have a high resolution, uncropped version.

[Ken S.]

Not sure if this adds anything:

53 1927 n 1'D-h2 PKP Tr12-137->1939:NKPS Tr12-137->1941:DRG-GVD->1943:DRG 56 3540->
1945.04.27:OStB 56 3540->1945.05.28:MAV/T->1948.03.22:SZD 56.3540
http://www.softrain.hu/train/warsz.htm

Locomotive seems to be of Austrian design, Polish made Tr12.
Before September 1939 there were 142 of them, all in south and south-eastern Poland: 26 in Kraków area , 39 in Lwów (now Lviv) area and 77 in Stanisławów (now Ivano-Frankivsk) area.
In September/October 1939 those in Kraków area were taken by Germans and used in Silesia (Oppeln area). The rest were taken by Soviets.

Original Polish markings Tr12-137 are still visible, although Polish emblem seems to be scratched or covered.
It is still possible photo was taken during 1939 Polish campaign.

Closer look at Panzer III might provide a definitive answer, as there was no Stug's in 1939 Polish campaign. I can't really see if it's a Stug or Panzer.

Here is identical Tr12 in Soviet service with markings in Cyrillic and Soviet emblem.

TR12 Soviets.jpg

[Ken S.]

I'm not; he probably makes good money doing this.

http://www.blurb.com/b/6107592-normal

http://www.mohistory.org/node/10537

I am quite shocked that Daniel Lenchner would weave a whole story out of this photo while admitting there was no writing on the back of it to explain exactly what went on here. Nothing to indicate if these soldiers came across this scene or created it. While he could be spot on in his suspicions, it's this type of speculation that leads to fiction being translated into fact when re-quoted elsewhere, which in my book is a disservice to Historical accuracy.

[GregSingh]

53 1927 n 1'D-h2 PKP Tr12-137->1939:NKPS Tr12-137->1941:DRG-GVD->1943:DRG 56 3540->
1945.04.27:OStB 56 3540->1945.05.28:MAV/T->1948.03.22:SZD 56.3540

Thank you for this information about locomotive. It seems it was one of those taken over by Soviets in 1939 and later captured by advancing German troops in Western Ukraine during early stages of Operation Barbarossa.

[Michael Kenny]

The tank is a Russian KV 2 with turret facing the rear. It looks like it is on a flat being drawn by the engine. You can see another KV just poking out from behind the building (Station?) which will be on the next flat along.

[Michael Kenny]

Might possibly be the same train?

Train with Soviet heavy tank KV-1 and KV-2, captured on railway platforms on the stretch-Kopychintsy Husiatyn (Ternopil region, Ukraine).

The turret of the KV 2 is facing the right way as is the KV 1 next right. The original pic is low res but I believe I see the foilage that is obvious in the later pics of the train. Note the tarpaulins are being removed in the last 2 pics

[GregSingh]

Looks like Michael nailed it!
It's Husiatyn / Гусятин train station.

Water tower is also visible behind the tank on the left on one of the photos.

[Michael Kenny]

This is (I believe) the same train.