Waffen-SS Units that distinguished themselves and their humanity

[Lieutenant Dan]

Stereotyping all Waffen SS as murderers and ruthless killers, in my opinion is wrong. I've read way too many accounts of their bravery as well as their compassion and humanity. The actions, for instance in Holland where cease fires were given to allow Wounded Allies to receive treatment. In contrast I've read where ALLIES took Waffen-SS and lashed them to the fronts of their Sherman's to gain ground, knowing the SS would hesitate to fire seeing their brothers as hostages. So where do soldiers draw the line in tactics ? The Waffen-SS were fierce fighters and tactically proficient. Again, I believe not all Waffen SS were fanatical Nazi's but men of honor and integrity. NO I AM NOT A NAZI LOVER, I JUST CALL IT THE WAY I SEE IT.

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

In contrast I've read where ALLIES took Waffen SS and lashed them to the fronts of their Sherman's to gain ground, knowing the SS would hesitate to fire seeing their brothers as hostages.

Please provide a source for this.

Granting cease fires to allow the opposite side to retrieve their wounded and not maltreating prisoners of war is standard behaviour in conventional warfare. That the Waffen-SS did this on some occasions does not in any way justify the criminal actions that they also carried out.

[starr]

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScr ... lled2.html

Goes to show how hypocritical the allies were When they allowed their white men kill other white men because of their allied American uniforms they were wearing, when other white men wearing german (waffen SS) uniforms were called murderers for committing the same acts .

Doesn't matter what country you came from or what uniform you are wearing, you kill unarmed soldiers or civilians you are a murderer!!!!!

Two wrongs don't make a right!

Not Waffen SS soldiers but Wehrmacht soldiers allowing british soldiers to carrying their injured brit comrade out of harms way.

[starr]

I believe not all Waffen SS were fanatical Nazi's

Before WWII, WaffenSS men were just normal men from Germany.. Just like you and I and many others here. The governments in power create monsters and those poor average guys pay for it in the end. This happens in all countries and in every century, decade and so on.

[pintere]

I remember reading in his entry on badass of the week that Michael Wittmann once destroyed a Russian tank, but upon seeing the burning Russian crews emerge from the vehicle, decided to help them. Out of pity, he ordered his crew to leave the tank and put out the burning Russians with their bedrolls.

Not sure what his source was for this. The full article can be found here.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/wittman.html

[BillHermann]

Here we go again,

And I would bet that in 3 to 4 more pages if not sooner this will get locked.

The opinion of they were not all bad and had honour comes up again and again for various reasons. More often to shake things up if anything else.

I am not at the moment going to ramble on making points that many have made before but there are only two points you made giving cease fires and throwing ss men on the front of tanks. The first being no different than any other army and the second being over dramatic at best to try and demonize the other side. The old they were bad too argument.

Now back to the Waffen-SS, the creation, parent organization, history, leadership and purpose was not what you describe any organization with the direct links to the SS, camps and crimes should not be sugar coated. The they were not all bad holds no weight as their original creation and purpose was nothing more than an off shoot of the original paramilitary creation of the SS.

The many die hards who were in leadership and believed in the cause would probably laugh at parts of your stament. They wanted to be ruthless in many ways that is who they were.

They were not all bad never has and never will hold any weight as the leadership and purpose was. So all members would have to bear some responsibility by being associated with the organization.

Any organization along with its parent involved with the level of criminal activity should not be twisted into something it was not. Any organization that wilfully recruited criminals and whas ordered to clear ghettos and pillage should not be thought of as honourable.

The only honour they had was to themselves and to a government that no longer exists.

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

Goes to show how hypocritical the allies were When they allowed their white men kill other white men because of their allied American uniforms they were wearing, when other white men wearing german (waffen SS) uniforms were called murderers for committing the same acts .

How is it in any way relevant which skin color they had?

Doesn't matter what country you came from or what uniform you are wearing, you kill unarmed soldiers or civilians you are a murderer!!!!!

Two wrongs don't make a right!

So you agree that the Waffen-SS was wrong, then?

Before WWII, WaffenSS men were just normal men from Germany.. Just like you and I and many others here. The governments in power create monsters and those poor average guys pay for it in the end. This happens in all countries and in every century, decade and so on.

A lot of them were nazis. Also, the citizens of a country are allowed to think for themselves. Indoctrination of children is easy because they don't have a moral frame of reference, but indoctrination of adults can only happen if the person agrees to it.

I remember reading in his entry on badass of the week that Michael Wittmann once destroyed a Russian tank, but upon seeing the burning Russian crews emerge from the vehicle, decided to help them. Out of pity, he ordered his crew to leave the tank and put out the burning Russians with their bedrolls.

Assuming this is true, the Russian soldiers would then likely have been worked to death in the SS-manned slave labor camps.

[j keenan]

Assuming this is true, the Russian soldiers would then likely have been worked to death in the SS-manned slave labor camps.

Not necessarily they could have become Hiwis and served with the LSSAH

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

Not necessarily they could have become Hiwis and served with the LSSAH

There are many different possibilities, which is why I wrote 'likely'. Many more Russian soldiers were killed in German camps than served as Hiwis.

[starr]

Before WWII, WaffenSS men were just normal men from Germany.. Just like you and I and many others here. The governments in power create monsters and those poor average guys pay for it in the end. This happens in all countries and in every century, decade and so on.

Replied by another member-

A lot of them were nazis. Also, the citizens of a country are allowed to think for themselves. Indoctrination of children is easy because they don't have a moral frame of reference, but indoctrination of adults can only happen if the person agrees to it.

So your saying there was freedom Of speech within the 3rd reich and german men could say no this is wrong?; however, you jusify the allies went to war againsts germany for the lack of free speech and the 3rd riech was a dictator facist regime? What you are saying is two oppisite things.

I know there was no freedom of speech within the 3rd reich and many germans went along with it because it was safer for them that way. In a sence like how the majority in our days don't do nothing when our governments screw us, we don't do anything and allow them to do it.

Im saying that there were no nazis ( and none was born a nazi) until Hitler created it such. Average German men were normal and they were blame for it because Hitler killed himself that allowed the allies to blame average germans that brought down so many innocent germans with him. All wars were created by men in power, not by the average men.

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

So your saying there was freedom Of speech within the 3rd reich and german men could say no this is wrong?;

That is not stated, or even implied, in my post. There is a big difference between not being able to actively oppose something* and actively supporting it by joining a political military organization.

however, you jusify the allies went to war againsts germany for the lack of free speech and the 3rd riech was a dictator facist regime? What you are saying is two oppisite things.

That is not stated, or even implied, in my post.

I know there was no freedom of speech within the 3rd reich and many germans went along with it because it was safer for them that way. In a sence like how the majority in our days don't do nothing when our governments screw us, we don't do anything and allow them to do it.

Again, there's a big difference between not opposing a regime and supporting it. Your comparison between current western world countries and Nazi Germany is ridiculous, not least because we are actually able to openly criticize it.

Im saying that there were no nazis ( and none was born a nazi) until Hitler created it such. Average German men were normal and they were blame for it because Hitler killed himself that allowed the allies to blame average germans that brought down so many innocent germans with him. All wars were created by men in power, not by the average men.

It doesn't matter that they were not nazis before Hitler rose to power. What matters is that the average German gave Hitler his power, and that many average Germans actively supported him and became nazis after his rise to power.


* There were those Germans who did, despite the personal risks.

[Marcus]

Moving this to the war crimes section.

Please read the claims and proof section of the rules at http://forum.axishistory.com/app.php/rules

/Marcus

[Michael Kenny]

Might just be a coincidence but 3 new members in the last week all with a clear agenda.

[Michael Kenny]

Not sure what his source was for this. The full article can be found here.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/wittman.html

The source is someones imagination.

[Michael Kenny]

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScr ... lled2.html

This is just another attempt to introduce the discredited claim of mass executions of SS men at Dachau. A simple forum search will show the real events and exposes the somewhat bizzare post war careers of the men making the war crime claims. If I remember correctly previously posted wartime documents contain accounts written down in 1945 that bear no relation to what these men claim today.