The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

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Eschenbach
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The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#1

Post by Eschenbach » 19 Oct 2015, 06:30

Hitler officially canceled the T4 program in August 1941. By then, almost 100,000 people with disabilities had been killed. My questions is: What was the exact reason why he terminated the program? Did he stop it due to public outcry, because he possibly wanted to transfer medical specialists to the east in order to conduct further extermination, or for another reason?

It seems that the Nazi regime continued to sanction killing people who had disabilities after 1941 so what was the point of "officially" ending it? I'm sure that the general public and religious figures continued to notice that certain children and/or adults were taken and killed by the state after Hitler ended the program, so why didn't outrage grew stronger? Btw, about how many people were killed under such eugenic guidelines after 1941?

Thanks

P.S. If anyone knows where I could access an image of the document that illustrates Hitler personally ordering the termination of Action T4 or an NSDAP publication recognizing the end of it, I would really appreciate it!!!

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Re: The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#2

Post by michael mills » 05 Nov 2015, 12:00

The "Adult Euthanasia" program was not cancelled, it simply ceased operation when it had reached its pre-set goal of "euthanasing" 70,000 long-term inmates of mental hospitals.

That "quota" had been set at a meeting of health officials soon after the beginning of the war, the record of which is still extant. The figure of 70,000 was set according to the following formula:

1. Out of every 1000 Germans, 10 suffered from mental illness requiring treatment in an institution at some time in their lives.

2. Of those 10, four were in long-term institutional care.

3. Of those four, one would be subjected to "euthanasia".

Thus, one out of every thousand Germans, or 0.1% of the population, would be subjected to "euthanasia"; that worked out as a quota of 70,000.

As can be seen, not all Germans suffering from mental illness were sentenced to death; only 10% of the total number of persons who received treatment for mental illness at some time were selected for "euthanasia". Even among those patients in long-term institutional care for mental illness, only a minority was selected for "euthanasia", some 25%.

However, T-4 did not terminate its activities with the end of "adult euthanasia", rather it turned to administering the "euthanasia" of sick concentration camp prisoners who were no longer able to be used for labour, the so-called "Sonderbehandlung 14f13". Of the six original T-4 killing centres, one, Schloss Hartheim, remained in operation until the end of the war for the purpose of killing concentration-camp prisoners.


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Re: The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#3

Post by Gorque » 06 Nov 2015, 02:58

My understanding is that Aktion T-4 was halted after reports of what was occurring began to be circulated among the public as well as being condemned from the pulpits of both denominations. By the end of 1940, Party reports stated “grave disquiet among ordinary people”. Besides the feelings of sympathy for the deceased and the deceased’s relatives, there was also outrage over the lack of legality of the killings as well as the killings being contrary to basic Christian tenets.
The clergy, from the summer and autumn of 1940, led the opposition to Aktion T-4 by articulating the unease and outrage as well as protesting the death of the innocents; i.e. of the basic right – the right to life. In 1941, Aktion T-4 was brought out into the open. Bishop Galen of Münster, on August 3, 1941, attacked the euthanasia program in his sermon as a violation of the Fifth Commandment as well as to the laws of Germany. After careful consideration, Hitler decided to halt Aktion T-4, as moving against the Bishop would have resulted in the loss not only of Münster, but also of Westphalia to the war effort.

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Re: The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#4

Post by michael mills » 06 Nov 2015, 07:22

After careful consideration, Hitler decided to halt Aktion T-4, as moving against the Bishop would have resulted in the loss not only of Münster, but also of Westphalia to the war effort.
There is no evidence whatever for any such decision by Hitler. That is purely a surmise, based on the coincidence that the Adult Euthanasia program came to an end shortly after Galen had publicly preached against it.

What is demonstrably true is that Hitler decided to take no action against Galen, even though Himmler recommended arresting him for treason and undermining the war effort. Hitler did not want to upset the delicate balance with the Catholic Church in Germany.

The objective facts are:

1. Before the Adult Euthanasia program commenced, a quota of 70,000 mental patients to be "euthanased" had been set by the administrators of the program. That is proved by the record of the meeting of health professionals at which the quota was set.

2. When the Adult Euthanasia program came to an end in mid-1941, the quota of 70,000 had been reached. That is proved by reports from each euthanasia centre at the time of termination, which added together yield a total of around 70,000 victims.

The logical conclusion is that the Adult Euthanasia program was terminated because the quota of 25% of mental patients in long-term institutional care had been reached, and there was no need to continue the killing.

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Re: The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#5

Post by michael mills » 06 Nov 2015, 07:31

Further to my previous post, one interesting detail is that in the late 1930s, the German Government had carried out survey of public opinion on the issue of euthanasia, which yielded the result that a majority of Germans would not object to the euthanasia of their incurably sick relatives, provided that it was done discreetly, and they did not have to take the responsibility of making the decision themselves.

The results of that survey suggest that the idea of a groundswell of popular resistance to the Adult Euthanasia program among the general German population is greatly exaggerated.

Bear in mind that the number "euthanased" amounted to only 25% of patients in long-term institutional care, and only 10% of all persons requiring institutional care at some point in their lives. Thus, only a minority of the population would have had relatives who fell victim to euthanasia.

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Re: The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#6

Post by Gorque » 06 Nov 2015, 15:25

michael mills wrote:
After careful consideration, Hitler decided to halt Aktion T-4, as moving against the Bishop would have resulted in the loss not only of Münster, but also of Westphalia to the war effort.
There is no evidence whatever for any such decision by Hitler. That is purely a surmise, based on the coincidence that the Adult Euthanasia program came to an end shortly after Galen had publicly preached against it.
You are correct that the statement did not come from Hitler. The quote came from Göebbels
if anything were done against the bishop, the population of Münster could be regarded as lost to the war effort, and the same could confidently be said of the whole of Westphalia.

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Re: The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#7

Post by Gorque » 06 Nov 2015, 23:01

Hi Michael:

Two points, the latter which agrees with your prior postings while the former does not. The information comes from an an old study (1961).

Ian Kershaw in Popular Opinion and Political Dissent in the Third Reich references page 96 of Bert Honolka Die Kreuzelschreiber: Ärzte ohne Gewissen; Euthanasie im Dritten Reich and states "Instead, Hitler gave the order to halt the 'euthanasia action' (footnote 24, p.339)

Additionally Kershaw notates that "Honolka, pp. 98-9 estimates a figure as high as 90,000. The 'official' ending of the 'action' did not by any means put a complete halt to the murders, especially in concentration camps, of 'euthanasia' victims." (footnote 11, p. 334)

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Re: The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#8

Post by Gorque » 07 Nov 2015, 00:23

A Der Spiegel article from May of '61 regarding Bert Hnolka's study:

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-43160977.html

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Re: The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#9

Post by stevie w » 31 May 2017, 22:47

michael mills wrote:
There is no evidence whatever for any such decision by Hitler. That is purely a surmise, based on the coincidence that the Adult Euthanasia program came to an end shortly after Galen had publicly preached against it.
Karl Brandt stated that Hitler informed him, in a meeting which included Bormann, on the 24th August 1941 to halt Action T4. Brandt recorded that the order was verbal, which he then passed on to Philipp Bouhler. So no physical evidence, but it sounds plausible.

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Re: The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#10

Post by stevie w » 31 May 2017, 23:13

michael mills wrote:Further to my previous post, one interesting detail is that in the late 1930s, the German Government had carried out survey of public opinion on the issue of euthanasia, which yielded the result that a majority of Germans would not object to the euthanasia of their incurably sick relatives, provided that it was done discreetly, and they did not have to take the responsibility of making the decision themselves.

The results of that survey suggest that the idea of a groundswell of popular resistance to the Adult Euthanasia program among the general German population is greatly exaggerated.

Bear in mind that the number "euthanased" amounted to only 25% of patients in long-term institutional care, and only 10% of all persons requiring institutional care at some point in their lives. Thus, only a minority of the population would have had relatives who fell victim to euthanasia.
Dr Ewald Meltzer, director of the Katharinenhof asylum, carried out a survey in 1920 on his own initative, in order to refute Binding and Hoche's pamphlet, 'Permission for the Destruction of Life Unworthy of Life'. Unfortunately for Meltzer, the respondents didn't have the respect for his patients that he did, and to the various questions he posed on the ending the lives of their disabled children, 73% responded positively to at least one. Most of those who added comments stated they wanted the state to perform this 'mercy death' without troubling them with the details.

His survey was cited by Theo Morell in 1939, when he was tasked by Hitler to find any material on 'euthanasia' before any action was implemented.

Do you mind if I ask where you get the figure of 'only' 25% of inmates were killed?

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Re: The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#11

Post by michael mills » 01 Jun 2017, 01:16

The figure is from the record of a meeting of health professionals held at the beginning of the war to determine a formula for the number of patients in institutionalised care to be subjected to "euthanasia".

The formula determined was as follows:

Of every 1000 German citizens, 10 needed institutional care at some point in their lives.

Of those 10, four were in long-term institutional care.

Of the four in long-term institutional care, one would be selected for "euthanasia" on the basis of agreed criteria, such as the prospect for recovery, ability to work etc. That equates to 25% of patients in long-term institutional care, 10% of all persons requiring institutional care at some point in their lives, and 0.1% of the total German population.

From memory, the record of the meeting was found in the archives of the former GDR after reunification, but that may be incorrect.

The above formula implies a "quota" of around 70,000 persons to be subjected to "euthanasia". It is known from the preserved records of the Euthanasia Institutes that that figure was reached in August 1941, which is precisely when the adult euthanasia program was halted.

The figures apply to the adult euthanasia program for German citizens. The child euthanasia program continued, but the numbers affected were relatively small. The adult euthanasia program was replaced by the euthanasia of sick concentration camp prisoners under Aktion 14f13, with the selection being carried out by doctors working for T4. In addition, there was the killing of patients in Polish and Soviet hospitals, but that was carried out by the Security Police under Himmler's command, not by T4.

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Re: The exact reason Hitler stopped T4?

#12

Post by stevie w » 08 Jun 2017, 14:37

michael mills wrote:The figure is from the record of a meeting of health professionals held at the beginning of the war to determine a formula for the number of patients in institutionalised care to be subjected to "euthanasia".

The formula determined was as follows:

Of every 1000 German citizens, 10 needed institutional care at some point in their lives.

Of those 10, four were in long-term institutional care.

Of the four in long-term institutional care, one would be selected for "euthanasia" on the basis of agreed criteria, such as the prospect for recovery, ability to work etc. That equates to 25% of patients in long-term institutional care, 10% of all persons requiring institutional care at some point in their lives, and 0.1% of the total German population.

From memory, the record of the meeting was found in the archives of the former GDR after reunification, but that may be incorrect.

The above formula implies a "quota" of around 70,000 persons to be subjected to "euthanasia". It is known from the preserved records of the Euthanasia Institutes that that figure was reached in August 1941, which is precisely when the adult euthanasia program was halted.

The figures apply to the adult euthanasia program for German citizens. The child euthanasia program continued, but the numbers affected were relatively small. The adult euthanasia program was replaced by the euthanasia of sick concentration camp prisoners under Aktion 14f13, with the selection being carried out by doctors working for T4. In addition, there was the killing of patients in Polish and Soviet hospitals, but that was carried out by the Security Police under Himmler's command, not by T4.
Sorry, misread you. I thought you were referring to the total number of euthanasia victims, and not just those of T4.

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