Beheadings in the Third Reich

[Max]

Perhaps you know that when asked by the press how he would like to execute Göring, Woods said "I will drop him like a polled ox!"

Is there a reference for this quote?
I don't know how they say it in Texas (or where ever) but I would have thought it was "I will drop him like [he was] poleaxed"
Noun 1. poleaxe - an axe used to slaughter cattle; has a hammer opposite the blade.

Max

[fredric]

Perhaps you know that when asked by the press how he would like to execute Göring, Woods said "I will drop him like a polled ox!"

Is there a reference for this quote?
I don't know how they say it in Texas (or where ever) but I would have thought it was "I will drop him like [he was] poleaxed"
Noun 1. poleaxe - an axe used to slaughter cattle; has a hammer opposite the blade.

Max

Max, the quote from a magazine article written I read way back in the mid- 1950's. It was the first time I had heard of Woods. In light of your comments, I am sure I misstated the word. I was sort of familiar with the term "poleaxe" (thought of it as a medieval weapon though) but your explanation puts the term into the correct context. Therefore I bet the word in the article was "poleaxed ox". Also, the magazine article was not much of an authoritative source...more sensationsal than factual.
Thanks

[andreobrecht]

With all due respect the fallbeil currently displayed at the Strafvollzugsmuseum in Ludwigsburg is not the same guillotine that was/is displayed at the DHM in Berlin.
I have photos of both machines and there are significant differences between the two.
You can check my website. Note the type of handle on the lunette, the blade shield, the head bucket, the shape of the cut-out in the bench etc. They are definitely different fallbeils.

Per my information:
The one at Strafvollzugsmuseum in Ludwigsburg comes from Moabit (Post WW2 use)
The one at DHM comes from Brandenburg (WW2 use)

[fredric]

With all due respect the fallbeil currently displayed at the Strafvollzugsmuseum in Ludwigsburg is not the same guillotine that was/is displayed at the DHM in Berlin.
I have photos of both machines and there are significant differences between the two.
You can check my website. Note the type of handle on the lunette, the blade shield, the head bucket, the shape of the cut-out in the bench etc. They are definitely different fallbeils.

Per my information:
The one at Strafvollzugsmuseum in Ludwigsburg comes from Moabit (Post WW2 use)
The one at DHM comes from Brandenburg (WW2 use)

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, ANDREOBRECHT.

The Tegel fallbeil at the Ludwigsburg Museum was "packed with all parts in oiled paper" and stored "in the basement" at Moabit after capital punishment was abolished in 1949. It stayed that way for years until it was obtained by Ludwigsburg, a real coup. Its provenance from the time it was built at at Tegel Prison in the late 1930's has yet to be fully revealed. I understand it was used after the War for executions at the Leherterstrasse Prison in Berlin. From photos of and comments from colleagues who have examined it, it is in excellent condition but is displayed without the blade. The blade and blade case are exhibited in a separate display at the Museum.

The DHM does have a fallbeil (in spite of any denials). It is the original from Brandenburg which the museum obtained shortly after the War. It too is a Tegel. It was put on display at the DHM and a photo of it can be found in the Bundesarchiv Bild 183-19136-0010 photo credit Gunter Weiss, 10 April 1953. Many other photos of it exist.

Thus when Brandenburg completed a reproduction execution chamber/memorial center they did not have their original fallbeil to put on display. The DHM would not return it. There are rumors the fallbeil at the Brandenburg is a reproduction like the execution room but that is not true. It is quite likely that it is the one from Plotzensee. Repaired areas on the fallbeil correspond to damage visible in Soviet photos of the Plotzensee fallbeil (e.g. the head tub and blood chute were both badly damaged and at Brandenburg have been replaced, the lunette replaced...etc.) Certainly the fallbeil at Brandenburg is not from Dresden. The first Dresden fallbeil was destroyed in the bombing and the second fallbeil at Dresden was a Tegel.

The fallbeil at Plotzensee originally was at Bruchsal prison. On February 17, 1937 the Bruchsal fallbeil was moved to Plotzensee, then designated as an execution center. (Prior to 1937, the infrequent executions at Plotzensee were carried out with the hand axe and on occasion, a transportable fallbeil)

Bruchsal's fallbeil was a classic late 1800's Mannhardt with a tip-board and a unique metal lunette. (An excellent photo of it was taken in the Bruchsal prison yard in 1923 and the photo caption says the picture shows the fallbeil when set up for the last execution held at Bruchsal) Once at Plotzensee, the tip-board was removed, the bench either replaced or reworked, the lunette replaced, a blade shield added and possibly other modifications made to expedite executions. In May, 1945 it was taken by Russian troops who liberated the prison possibly for display in a Russian museum but for the moment, put into storage at Moabit Prison. There is a report that the Soviets later traded the fallbeil with Western Zone authorities.

Bruchsal did get a replacement, by the way...in May, 1944. It was an all-metal fallbeil based the Mannhardt style and installed in their "neue Richtstatte". It previously had been in Strasburg and fomr June 22, 1944 through Jan 25, 1945, was used to behead 55 persons. I have reports that it was destroyed in an air raid. Fortunately a photo of this "black widow" was taken so we know how it looked.

[Pete26]

[Paul53]

In january 1906, Gröpler passed an exam as Scharfrichter before the Royal Board of Magdeburg.In the same year he popped up as executioner in the Magdeburg adress book and was thus the successor of Wilhelm Reindel,his tutor,who was executioner from 1900 till 1906, and then from 1933 till 1936 Prussias executioner.Gröpler begun his career as Chief assistant of the Prussian executioner Lorenz Schwietz.

But Gröpler was hewn, so to say, from much denser wood than his predecessors.He had nothing whatsoever to do with the statement made by the older Schwietz, namely the execution of the Death sentence to be an "act of honour" It was clear from the beginning that he (Gröpler) was only interested in the money.He wrote, as did Julius Krautz a long time before him. to the authoreties in other northern German counties, and offered his services.Gröpler, who was soon disliked because of his ridiculously high spending bills,was annoyed by the small fee he got from the executions he performed and the variying and not exactly computable income he got from that. In 1906 he earned 1075 Mark,in 1907 he got 1800 Mark and in 1908 finally 2550 Mark.

[gargouri]

I'm working on website about the death penalty history. I'm looking for execution photos, videos (may be graphic) related to beheading (sword, axe, guillotine). If you find some time to send a message or email me links or materials I would find it incredibly useful.
Thank you in advance.

[Pete26]

Bruchsal did get a replacement, by the way...in May, 1944. It was an all-metal fallbeil based the Mannhardt style and installed in their "neue Richtstatte". It previously had been in Strasburg and fomr June 22, 1944 through Jan 25, 1945, was used to behead 55 persons. I have reports that it was destroyed in an air raid. Fortunately a photo of this "black widow" was taken so we know how it looked.

In this photo, it looks like the guillotine has been removed from the execution room and placed in storage. It is sitting on an elevated platform and the rear legs are on the very edge of it. This would not be a realistic placement of the guillotine on a scaffold in an execution room, would it? Besides, Bruchsal prison execution room had a tiled floor and the guillotine was most likely bolted directly to the floor, and not placed on any elevated platform.

http://www.bruchsal.org/image/guillotine

[fredric]

Bruchsal did get a replacement, by the way...in May, 1944. It was an all-metal fallbeil based the Mannhardt style and installed in their "neue Richtstatte". It previously had been in Strasburg and fomr June 22, 1944 through Jan 25, 1945, was used to behead 55 persons. I have reports that it was destroyed in an air raid. Fortunately a photo of this "black widow" was taken so we know how it looked.

In this photo, it looks like the guillotine has been removed from the execution room and placed in storage. It is sitting on an elevated platform and the rear legs are on the very edge of it. this would not be a realistic placement of the guillotine on a scaffold in an execution room, would it? Besides, Bruchsal prison execution room had a tiled floor and the guillotine was most likely bolted directly tot he floor, and not placed on any elevated platform.

http://www.bruchsal.org/image/guillotine

Yes, Pete. I have wondered about this photo too ever since I first saw it. Certainly is not the fallbeil as it would have been set up in the execution shed. My guess is that it might be a photo of the fallbeil when it arrived from Strasbourg, freshly painted, tarps off and on a skid. Perhaps the Bruchsal authorities were were documenting its condition upon arrival? Note the frayed handle covers. That is a puzzle too. We do have photos of the interior of the "neu richstatte" and I agree this photo was not taken inside the building. I have read that this fallbeil was destroyed. Anyone else seen this?

[andreobrecht]

I have a copy of this photo too. I have read that during the German occupation/annexation of Alsace-Lorraine from 1870 to 1918 while an 1792 type guillotine was used for almost all the criminal executions, toward the end of the period a Mannhardt type fallbeil was imported into Alsace and possibly used in the last 2 or 3 executions. Could this be it? I don't see why it would be called the "Strasbourg" fallbeil otherwise. There was no Reich execution center in Strasbourg as far as I know...

[fredric]

I have a copy of this photo too. I have read that during the German occupation/annexation of Alsace-Lorraine from 1870 to 1918 while an 1792 type guillotine was used for almost all the criminal executions, toward the end of the period a Mannhardt type fallbeil was imported into Alsace and possibly used in the last 2 or 3 executions. Could this be it? I don't see why it would be called the "Strasbourg" fallbeil otherwise. There was no Reich execution center in Strasbourg as far as I know...

No execution center in Stasbourg. Photo I have has a German caption so describing the machine as coming from "Strasburg" in May 1944 and put into use from June 22, 1944 to Jan. 25, 1945. This is a unique fallbeil due to what appears to be all-metal construction and clearly is a Mannhardt design. Are you suggesting this may be a fallbeil built around in the WW1 period by Mannhardt ? Like to track this one down. I have read the Bruchsal execution shed was destroyed in an air raid and have some color photos of it in what looks like demolition/cleanup perhaps after the War.

[andreobrecht]

The information I have is that a 1854 type fallbeil was brought to Alsace-Lorraine in 1914. It was stored at Strasbourg and was transported by train to Metz for the execution of Jean Berresheim on March 13, 1914. The executioner was the German Scharfrichter Ziller, from Wurtemberg who was contracted by the Alsace-Lorraine justice department. Alsace-Lorraine was annexed by Germany after the war of 1870 through the end of WWI in 1918.

The whereabouts of this fallbeil after 1918 are unknown. Before 1914 an old 1792 model guillotine was used in Metz (Photograph on my website). The blade from this guillotine is preserved in a museum in Metz and is engraved with the names of the 9 people executed in Metz between 1883 and 1908. Berresheim was the 10th and his name is not on the blade. Executions were performed inside the prison courtyard on a scaffold per the German protocol. In 1918 Alsace-Lorraine returned to the French protocol with public executions outside the prison gates using a Berger guillotine mounted directly on the ground. Anatole Deibler was the executioner at the time.

The information is directly from documents in the National French justice archives. It is possible(if not likely) that the "Strasbourg" guillotine moved to Bruchsaler in 1944 is that machine.

[fredric]

The information I have is that a 1854 type fallbeil was brought to Alsace-Lorraine in 1914. It was stored at Strasbourg and was transported by train to Metz for the execution of Jean Berresheim on March 13, 1914. The executioner was the German Scharfrichter Ziller, from Wurtemberg who was contracted by the Alsace-Lorraine justice department. Alsace-Lorraine was annexed by Germany after the war of 1870 through the end of WWI in 1918.

The whereabouts of this fallbeil after 1918 are unknown. Before 1914 an old 1792 model guillotine was used in Metz (Photograph on my website). The blade from this guillotine is preserved in a museum in Metz and is engraved with the names of the 9 people executed in Metz between 1883 and 1908. Berresheim was the 10th and his name is not on the blade. Executions were performed inside the prison courtyard on a scaffold per the German protocol. In 1918 Alsace-Lorraine returned to the French protocol with public executions outside the prison gates using a Berger guillotine mounted directly on the ground. Anatole Deibler was the executioner at the time.

The information is directly from documents in the National French justice archives. It is possible(if not likely) that the "Strasbourg" guillotine moved to Bruchsaler in 1944 is that machine.

Merci bien, Andre. Good info. I am familiar with pics of the Metz machine, a strange contraption eh? Do you have a photo of the engraved blade? I have a photo of an engraved guilllotine blade in my files and will check the dates on it in the slight chance it is from Metz. I do not think the French sensibility would permit engraving the victims' names on the blade...but it is a Germanic tradition followed by some Scharfrichters.

[andreobrecht]

I have seen a picture of the blade. It is an 1792 guillotine blade with the angled top and 3 asymetrical bolts

The names on the blade are:
Kurowski 9-11-83
Sonnenschein 23-9-84
Rouprich 26-8-86
Uebing 31-12-1891
Back 12-11-92
Kiefer 16-10-1900
Dimoff 16-10-1900
Thouvenin 4-6-1908
Hippert 23-12-08

Engraving style of each name is unique so it looks like they have been added gradually after each execution and not when the blade was retired.
I have verified that these 9 names are indeed 9 of the 10 people executed in Metz while the city belonged to the German empire. 9 more people were executed in other cities (Colmar, Strasbourg, Mulhouse) between 1870 and 1914

[Mark in Cleveland, Tn.]

gargouri, If looking for GENUINE pictures/videos of be-headings/sword executions/stonings, etc. you need to make a pot of coffee, get on PC late at night, and start going to Middle East sourced web sites. There are several *Jihad* type sites that show some pretty graphic vids/pics/( however, most vids shown were shot with IPhone, or some other cell phone type camera.)Some out of Pakistan, a couple out of South Korea on North Korea/Mainland China executions.
As for Third Reich, if not on a site such as YouTube, and those vids are common ones, and edited, GOOD LUCK.