Beheadings in the Third Reich

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Pete26
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What fallbeil is this?

#4396

Post by Pete26 » 02 Feb 2013, 20:18

It says that this is the Wolfenbuttel fallbeil, but it looks different and has no hinged board and has a Rastatt fallbeil style metal bucket.

Image

http://wolfenbuettel.stiftung-ng.de/upl ... _2_300.jpg
Last edited by Pete26 on 03 Feb 2013, 02:06, edited 5 times in total.

Pete26
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photo of Wolfenbuttel prison cell block building

#4397

Post by Pete26 » 02 Feb 2013, 20:29

Last edited by Pete26 on 03 Feb 2013, 07:10, edited 1 time in total.


tomh
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Finnish beheading axe

#4398

Post by tomh » 02 Feb 2013, 20:37

fredric wrote:
tomh wrote:Thanks a lot for the interesting info!
Und danke to you too!
Here is something to check out in Finland. I think the Finnish executioners used the axe. Have you
ever seen a real Finnish beheading axe or block? This design probably was studied by some of the pre-war
German executioners (my conjecture).
The Swedes of course did purchase a French guillotine, a fine Berger...and M. Bois de Justice knows more than I on this
topic. Use just once though I think.
Yes, the axe was used for executions in Finland. Finlands official beheading axe is stored in the crime museum in Helsinki, but it is not on public display. I have not seen the real one, but here is a picture of it from an old documentary film.
mestauskirves.jpg
Here is the film, an old documentary about the crime museum from 1947. The axe can be seen in the very end, 7:30 -->
http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/artikkelit/r ... edia=49555


Crude, but impressive. The axe was probably last used for the execution of Tahvo Putkonen in Pieksämäki in 1825, after that all death sentences were systematically commuted to forced labor in Siberia.

Sweden might have had a similar axe during that time, I don't know, but the axe used for the last beheadings in Sweden looks a lot different. Sweden used the axe until 1900, after that they purchased a guillotine from France, that was used only once until the death penalty was abolished.

Pete26
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Munich's last public execution with a sword

#4399

Post by Pete26 » 03 Feb 2013, 03:03


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fredric
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Re: What fallbeil is this?

#4400

Post by fredric » 03 Feb 2013, 06:44

Pete26 wrote:It says that this is the Wolfenbuttel fallbeil, but it looks different and has no hinged board and has a Rastatt fallbeil style metal bucket.

Image

http://wolfenbuettel.stiftung-ng.de/upl ... _2_300.jpg
THIS IS THE HAMBURG FALLBEIL. IT IS NOT WOLFENBUETTELS. THEY HAD A REAL MANNHARDT AND IT IS TO THE BEST OF MY RESEARCH, STILL AT THE PRISON, DISMANTLED AND HIDDEN. THE PHOTO DESCRIPTION I HAVE SEEN, IF YOU READ CAREFULLY, DESCRIBES THIS MACHINE AS BEING "LIKE THE ONE" AT WOLFENBUETTEL. WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS PHOTO IS NOT A MANNHARDT BUT AN ADAPTATION OF MANNHARD DESIGN. IT IS A TEGEL-TYPE AND LET'S CALL IT "TEGEL-S". IT EMPLOYS MANY MANNHARDT FEATURES. IT IS STILL
AT THE PRISON, DISMANTLED. MANY VICTIMS OF THE REICH WERE MURDERED ON THIS MACHINE. SIMPLE. DEADLY. THIS MACHINE IS NOT A REPRODUCTION. IT IS THE REAL DEAL.

Pete26
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Another photo

#4401

Post by Pete26 » 03 Feb 2013, 07:21

This appears to be the same fallbeil without the head bucket. Once again they claim that it is the Wolfenbutel fallbeil. Note the safety pin on the blade release lever, attached by a chain.

Image

http://www.vernetztes-gedaechtnis.de/la ... chtung.htm
Last edited by Pete26 on 03 Feb 2013, 17:43, edited 1 time in total.

gordon anderson
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Re: What fallbeil is this?

#4402

Post by gordon anderson » 03 Feb 2013, 14:55

fredric wrote:
Pete26 wrote:It says that this is the Wolfenbuttel fallbeil, but it looks different and has no hinged board and has a Rastatt fallbeil style metal bucket.

Image

http://wolfenbuettel.stiftung-ng.de/upl ... _2_300.jpg
THIS IS THE HAMBURG FALLBEIL. IT IS NOT WOLFENBUETTELS. THEY HAD A REAL MANNHARDT AND IT IS TO THE BEST OF MY RESEARCH, STILL AT THE PRISON, DISMANTLED AND HIDDEN. THE PHOTO DESCRIPTION I HAVE SEEN, IF YOU READ CAREFULLY, DESCRIBES THIS MACHINE AS BEING "LIKE THE ONE" AT WOLFENBUETTEL. WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS PHOTO IS NOT A MANNHARDT BUT AN ADAPTATION OF MANNHARD DESIGN. IT IS A TEGEL-TYPE AND LET'S CALL IT "TEGEL-S". IT EMPLOYS MANY MANNHARDT FEATURES. IT IS STILL
AT THE PRISON, DISMANTLED. MANY VICTIMS OF THE REICH WERE MURDERED ON THIS MACHINE. SIMPLE. DEADLY. THIS MACHINE IS NOT A REPRODUCTION. IT IS THE REAL DEAL.

This is the Wolfenbuettel fallbeil it is NOT a Tegel type . It works like a Manhardt (although I can't be certain who made it), it has the same long pivoting rod swinging out to release the claw on top from within the hole on the blade. Tegels do NOT have holes in their blades, there is no need, as that isn't the release mechanism. The pin on the chain is to keep the rod from swinging out in an arc from the slot in the rest. the Hamburg Fallbeil is different---I have discussed that in a few places .For the record the wartime Hamburg Fallbeil was not A Tegel but a Mannhardt type also ( pivot rod release). In design it is an anomaly. Its blade is much longer than the others. It looks very different.

For pictures, often the head basin is dropped down for photos or rermoved so the neck hole is visable.
It was recently posted that Fallbeil head basins never have backs on them --which is incorrect-- as this one illustrates. There are several fallbeils with head basins that have backs on them---- this is a good example of one that does. Also the bascules on most fallbeils even the those like this from Wolfenbuettel had their bascules removed during the war years for expediency sake so that doesn't determine a Tegel . Actually this model is quite elaborate and could be a Mannhardt as far as I am concerned.It is certainly as detailed . Note the lovely arcs that echo where the bolts pierce the bars of the
sledge to screw on the blade. On the standart Mannhardt the bars on the sledge are straight all the way across and and do not have the shallow arcs above and below the screw hole on the sledge rails. I also need to correct
posted information that is inaccurate on the Vienna fallbeil, and some others as well but I will have to do it at a later time.

Pete26
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Re: What fallbeil is this?

#4403

Post by Pete26 » 03 Feb 2013, 15:51

gordon anderson wrote: This is the Wolfenbuettel fallbeil it is NOT a Tegel type . It works like a Manhardt (although I can't be certain who made it), it has the same long pivoting rod swinging out to release the claw on top from within the hole on the blade. Tegels do NOT have holes in their blades, there is no need, as that isn't the release mechanism. The pin on the chain is to keep the rod from swinging out in an arc from the slot in the rest. the Hamburg Fallbeil is different---I have discussed that in a few places .For the record the wartime Hamburg Fallbeil was not A Tegel but a Mannhardt type also ( pivot rod release). In design it is an anomaly. Its blade is much longer than the others. It looks very different.

For pictures, often the head basin is dropped down for photos or rermoved so the neck hole is visable.
It was recently posted that Fallbeil head basins never have backs on them --which is incorrect-- as this one illustrates. There are several fallbeils with head basins that have backs on them---- this is a good example of one that does. Also the bascules on most fallbeils even the those like this from Wolfenbuettel had their bascules removed during the war years for expediency sake so that doesn't determine a Tegel . Actually this model is quite elaborate and could be a Mannhardt as far as I am concerned.It is certainly as detailed . Note the lovely arcs that echo where the bolts pierce the bars of the
sledge to screw on the blade. On the standart Mannhardt the bars on the sledge are straight all the way across and and do not have the shallow arcs above and below the screw hole on the sledge rails. I also need to correct
posted information that is inaccurate on the Vienna fallbeil, and some others as well but I will have to do it at a later time.
Gordon, I was somewhat confused by other photos of the Wolfebuttel fallbeil, which show it with the bascule attached, even the post war photo in the yard of the prison. Also, descriptions of some executions by this fallbeil refer to "condemned being strapped to a board" which suggests that the bascule was on the fallbeil all the time. But it is entirely possible that the bascule was removed during the peak execution years during the war, stored in some closet and then reattached. This fallbeil was also used to execute a number of Nazi criminals after the War, so it is possible that the bascule was reattached and used for those executions and then remained with the fallbeil? The post war executions were probably not rushed, so strapping the condemned to the bascule was not that big a deal.

Image

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QfG_shnDzlk/S ... lotine.JPG

Image

http://boisdejustice.com/Germany/Wolfenbuettel.JPG

The blood chute is different in this photo from the fallbeil posted in the post above. Plus I do not see the release lever safety pin chain on this one. This is what confused me. The photo showing a man standing next to the bascule gives one a good idea how tall the bench is on these Mannhardt fallbeils and that they were really designed to be used with the tipping board. I am curious, when the bascule was removed on some Mannhardts, were the bench legs shortened somewhat to make the bench lower and to make it easier to place the condemned on the bench?

As for this photo, where was the fallbeil photographed? This does not look like the original execution room, but rather some storage place.

Image

http://wolfenbuettel.stiftung-ng.de/upl ... _2_300.jpg
Last edited by Pete26 on 03 Feb 2013, 17:41, edited 1 time in total.

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fredric
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Re: Finnish beheading axe

#4404

Post by fredric » 03 Feb 2013, 16:35

tomh wrote:
fredric wrote:
tomh wrote:Thanks a lot for the interesting info!
Und danke to you too!
Here is something to check out in Finland. I think the Finnish executioners used the axe. Have you
ever seen a real Finnish beheading axe or block? This design probably was studied by some of the pre-war
German executioners (my conjecture).
The Swedes of course did purchase a French guillotine, a fine Berger...and M. Bois de Justice knows more than I on this
topic. Use just once though I think.
Yes, the axe was used for executions in Finland. Finlands official beheading axe is stored in the crime museum in Helsinki, but it is not on public display. I have not seen the real one, but here is a picture of it from an old documentary film.
mestauskirves.jpg
Here is the film, an old documentary about the crime museum from 1947. The axe can be seen in the very end, 7:30 -->
http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/artikkelit/r ... edia=49555

Suomi! Finnland Forever!
And that is about all the Finnish I can quote this early morning in snowy, freezing New Jersey.
I have a photo of an unusual richtblock and axe which I though was Finnish.
I will probably find I am wrong. Might be Danish cuttlery. But what intrigued me were the spring "hoops" which held
the poor victim to the block, a feature mentioned in German/Nazi execution descriptions. I think Reindel or Groppler
may have tried this method. Waltenbacher includes a critique by an unnamed scharfrichter who was evaluating execution
equipment for the RMJ. The critique mentions some features that sound Scandinavian.
Just read Fallada. Thank you for the picture. That took some work. The axe is as you say, crude but
impressive. Bet it is older than 1825.



Crude, but impressive. The axe was probably last used for the execution of Tahvo Putkonen in Pieksämäki in 1825, after that all death sentences were systematically commuted to forced labor in Siberia.

Sweden might have had a similar axe during that time, I don't know, but the axe used for the last beheadings in Sweden looks a lot different. Sweden used the axe until 1900, after that they purchased a guillotine from France, that was used only once until the death penalty was abolished.

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andreobrecht
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4405

Post by andreobrecht » 03 Feb 2013, 19:21

This is only speculation on my part but the Wolfenbuettel fallbeil is one of the WW2 fallbeils that was used after the war. It was used to execute war criminals sentenced by the British military court. It appears that it was modified for this purpose after the war since we have photos taken in 1945 where it still had the bascule.
The bucket seen in this photo is identical to the one used on the Rastatt and Mainz fallbeils which were manufactured after the war. It also appears to have an extension with a downspout soldered to the original deflector located under the bucket. This also matches the Mainz and Rastatt fallbeils layout. The buckets on the Mainz and Rastatt fallbeils do not have a wall on the side facing the lunette. Does this one have one? From the position of the bucket I would say it does not.

tomh
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Re: Finnish beheading axe

#4406

Post by tomh » 03 Feb 2013, 20:28

fredric wrote: I have a photo of an unusual richtblock and axe which I though was Finnish.
I will probably find I am wrong. Might be Danish cuttlery. But what intrigued me were the spring "hoops" which held
the poor victim to the block, a feature mentioned in German/Nazi execution descriptions. I think Reindel or Groppler
may have tried this method. Waltenbacher includes a critique by an unnamed scharfrichter who was evaluating execution
equipment for the RMJ. The critique mentions some features that sound Scandinavian.
I think this is what you are talking about. It's the Danish execution equipment. It was last used for the execution of Jens Nielsen in Horsens prison in 1892. The executioner was Theodor Seistrup.
353157.501.jpg
353157.501.jpg (17.94 KiB) Viewed 2160 times
Jens Nielsen
jensnielsen.jpg
jensnielsen.jpg (33.82 KiB) Viewed 2138 times
Theodor Seistrup
Jens_Carl_Theodor_Seistrup.jpg
Jens_Carl_Theodor_Seistrup.jpg (5.46 KiB) Viewed 2160 times
Denmark's last executioner was Carl Christensen. He was in office from 1906 until 1926, but he never conducted any executions.

http://drabssageridanmark.beboer2650.dk ... _1943.html
http://www.horsensmuseum.dk/Nyheder/201 ... elsen.aspx

Pete26
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4407

Post by Pete26 » 04 Feb 2013, 01:03

andreobrecht wrote:This is only speculation on my part but the Wolfenbuettel fallbeil is one of the WW2 fallbeils that was used after the war. It was used to execute war criminals sentenced by the British military court. It appears that it was modified for this purpose after the war since we have photos taken in 1945 where it still had the bascule.
The bucket seen in this photo is identical to the one used on the Rastatt and Mainz fallbeils which were manufactured after the war. It also appears to have an extension with a downspout soldered to the original deflector located under the bucket. This also matches the Mainz and Rastatt fallbeils layout. The buckets on the Mainz and Rastatt fallbeils do not have a wall on the side facing the lunette. Does this one have one? From the position of the bucket I would say it does not.
There is no need for the rear wall on any of these head buckets because they are not designed to catch and hold the blood, however, if the bucket has one, it is inherently stronger and stiffer and less likely to deform with repeated use. Of course having the rear wall means that there is another thing close to the blade as it comes down, an if the sheet metal of the rear wall got bent outward for some reason, it could be impacted by the blade.
Last edited by Pete26 on 04 Feb 2013, 05:12, edited 1 time in total.

Pete26
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Re: Finnish beheading axe

#4408

Post by Pete26 » 04 Feb 2013, 01:05

tomh wrote:
353157.501.jpg
Was the objective to hit the neck resting on the narrow block and clamped between the two metal hoops? How were those hoops secured around the person's neck? What if the executioner hit one of the hoops by mistake?

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Friedrich Lorenz

#4409

Post by Pete26 » 04 Feb 2013, 05:20

Friedrich Lorenz, a Catholic priest and former military chaplain was beheaded in Rotter Ochse prison in Halle on 13 November 1944. He was sentenced to death for listening to foreign radio broadcasts, for aiding the enemy, and for undermining the military war effort.

Image

http://www.bonifatiuskloster.de/index.p ... &Itemid=85

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... CEUQ7gEwAg

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andreobrecht
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4410

Post by andreobrecht » 04 Feb 2013, 05:32

Here are two pictures of the inside of the bucket on the Rastatt fallbeil. The shape of the bucket on the new photo of the Wolfenbuettel fallbeil is exactly the same in particular the single slot for the strap on the side and the rim that has a lowered section across the front. The Tegel bucket is more like a truncated cylinder with a straight rim and the posts for the strap are located outside the bucket so there are two slots. Neither design had a rear wall because they were designed to be easy to wash out. A rear wall would trap water/blood inside the bucket.

The only two fallbeil head-buckets I have seen that have rear walls are the ones from Pankraz and Vienna and both are reproductions as far as I can tell so the design is highly questionable.

Image
Image

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