Beheadings in the Third Reich

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Pete26
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Tegel fallbeil head bucket

#6151

Post by Pete26 » 13 Feb 2017, 01:18

Tegel fallbeil drawing which I posted some time ago shows the head bucket in profile with an angled upper rim.

https://kolobosko.files.wordpress.com/2 ... =500&h=667

Photos of the original Pankrac fallbeil and Dresden fallbeil both show such a sloping rim. However, both Katowice and Poznan fallbeil head buckets have a straight (horizontal) upper head bucket rim, which is obviously not per the drawing. The question is then: Are Katowice and Poznan head buckets the original buckets supplied or were they replaced with straight upper rim buckets at some later date? Perhaps there were variations in how these head buckets were made. In all four cases below, the leather strap is routed through the cutouts in the sides of the head bucket. This is definitely the original design feature and is noticeably absent on incorrect reproduction buckets, e.g. restored Pankrac and Vienna fallbeils, where the strap goes over the top of bucket and there are no cutouts in the sides of the buckets.

Pankrac fallbeil (angled rim):
http://boisdejustice.com/Germany/Pankrac1.JPG

Dresden fallbeil (angled rim):
http://fotothek.slub-dresden.de/fotos/d ... 12_026.jpg

Poznan fallbeil (straight rim):
http://cyryl.poznan.pl/upload_ext/kolek ... r16x10.jpg

Katowice fallbeil (straight rim):
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ ... 639015.jpg

Pete26
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Mannhardt fallbeils

#6152

Post by Pete26 » 13 Feb 2017, 01:53

Supposedly there were only six Mannhardt fallbeils ever made in 1860s. They were also used in several Central Executions sites of the Third Reich.

Stuttgart Oberlandesgericht. It is most likely that this fallbeil was destroyed during bombing of the Stuttgart Regional Court in September 1944. Its present whereabouts are unknown.

Munich Stadelheim prison. The fallbeil survived the war and is now at Bayerische Museum, quite well preserved. It was modified by removing the tipping board (and substituting a metal head bucket for the cloth basket?)

http://media1.faz.net/ppmedia/video/246 ... -neben.jpg

Berlin Ploetzensee prison. The fallbeil was originally in Bruchsal prison and was moved to Ploetzensee prison in the late 1930s. It was also modified by removing the tipping board, substituting a different table with straight (not angled) rear legs, and replacing the original cloth head basket with a metal head bucket. This fallbeil is possibly the one now displayed in Brandenburg-Gorden execution room.

http://boisdejustice.com/Germany/Plotzensee.JPG

https://www.stadt-brandenburg.de/filead ... 309b47.jpg

Wolfenbuettel prison. The fallbeil was moved from Hannover prison to Wolfebuettel prison in the late 1930s. It was also slightly modified by removing the tipping board. Supposedly this fallbeil is stored disassembled in Wolfenbuettel prison to this day.

http://www.goodkindletters.com/images/G ... lotine.jpg

Hamburg Holstenglacis prison. Hamburg fallbeil was significantly modified by removing the tipping board, substituting a metal head bucket, and modifying the sledge to accept the old Hamburg wooden fallbeil blade. I believe that the fallbeil is still in existence, stored somewhere in one of Hamburg museums.

http://www.ndr.de/kultur/geschichte/chr ... tgross.jpg

Wroclaw prison. This Mannhardt fallbeil was essentially used unmodified. It had the original tipping board and cloth head basket. It is presently displayed in a Kiev museum, minus the blade which is displayed in one of Polish museums.

http://images.ioh.pl/Online/IOH10/obozy/2-2_m.jpg

http://www.gilotyna.we.wroclawiu.pl/Pol ... a2%20m.jpg

So in summary, five out of six original Mannhardts are still in existence and no doubt could be easily restored to be operational again. One open question is whether any Stuttgart Mannhardt fallbeil parts were ever used to made the all metal Mannhardt lookalike fallbeil which was used in Bruchsal prison beginning with 1944. To answer this question, we need to know the exact date the all metal Bruchsal fallbeil was first brought into Bruchsal prison.

http://boisdejustice.com/Germany/Strasbourg.JPG
Last edited by Pete26 on 13 Feb 2017, 14:51, edited 1 time in total.


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alanlee
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Re: Execution of Bedrich Kozlik and his wife

#6153

Post by alanlee » 13 Feb 2017, 14:31

Pete26 wrote:
alanlee wrote:Thanks for share. So sorry I cannot read the Czch language.
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

Some words that google could not translate: Kat = executioner; sekyrarna = axe room, or guillotine execution room in this case
Great, google doing very well, but I found some sentence going with wrong grammer by put the subject at the end.

Piotr1
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The blade from Wroclaw fallbeil

#6154

Post by Piotr1 » 13 Feb 2017, 17:44

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fredric
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Re: Mannhardt fallbeils

#6155

Post by fredric » 14 Feb 2017, 06:01

Pete26 wrote:Supposedly there were only six Mannhardt fallbeils ever made in 1860s. They were also used in several Central Executions sites of the Third Reich.

Stuttgart Oberlandesgericht. It is most likely that this fallbeil was destroyed during bombing of the Stuttgart Regional Court in September 1944. Its present whereabouts are unknown.

Munich Stadelheim prison. The fallbeil survived the war and is now at Bayerische Museum, quite well preserved. It was modified by removing the tipping board (and substituting a metal head bucket for the cloth basket?)

http://media1.faz.net/ppmedia/video/246 ... -neben.jpg

Berlin Ploetzensee prison. The fallbeil was originally in Bruchsal prison and was moved to Ploetzensee prison in the late 1930s. It was also modified by removing the tipping board, substituting a different table with straight (not angled) rear legs, and replacing the original cloth head basket with a metal head bucket. This fallbeil is possibly the one now displayed in Brandenburg-Gorden execution room.

http://boisdejustice.com/Germany/Plotzensee.JPG

https://www.stadt-brandenburg.de/filead ... 309b47.jpg

Wolfenbuettel prison. The fallbeil was moved from Hannover prison to Wolfebuettel prison in the late 1930s. It was also slightly modified by removing the tipping board. Supposedly this fallbeil is stored disassembled in Wolfenbuettel prison to this day.

http://www.goodkindletters.com/images/G ... lotine.jpg

Hamburg Holstenglacis prison. Hamburg fallbeil was significantly modified by removing the tipping board, substituting a metal head bucket, and modifying the sledge to accept the old Hamburg wooden fallbeil blade. I believe that the fallbeil is still in existence, stored somewhere in one of Hamburg museums.

http://www.ndr.de/kultur/geschichte/chr ... tgross.jpg

Wroclaw prison. This Mannhardt fallbeil was essentially used unmodified. It had the original tipping board and cloth head basket. It is presently displayed in a Kiev museum, minus the blade which is displayed in one of Polish museums.

http://images.ioh.pl/Online/IOH10/obozy/2-2_m.jpg

http://www.gilotyna.we.wroclawiu.pl/Pol ... a2%20m.jpg

So in summary, five out of six original Mannhardts are still in existence and no doubt could be easily restored to be operational again. One open question is whether any Stuttgart Mannhardt fallbeil parts were ever used to made the all metal Mannhardt lookalike fallbeil which was used in Bruchsal prison beginning with 1944. To answer this question, we need to know the exact date the all metal Bruchsal fallbeil was first brought into Bruchsal prison.

http://boisdejustice.com/Germany/Strasbourg.JPG
The following information from several sources:
In May, 1944 a new execution chamber was built at Bruchsal and equipped with a fallbeil from Strasburg. This fallbeil was inspected by
Reichhart, approved and shipped to Bruchsal. Nowhere have I found a reference to parts from Stuttgart's destroyed fallbeil being used.
It is reported to have been used from June 22, 1944 to Jan. 25, 1945. It is estimated that about 150 fallbeil executions were carried out.
I have read somewhere that the Strasburg/Bruchsal fallbeil (the all-metal Mannhardt-style machine) was destroyed in an air raid.

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alanlee
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Re: Mannhardt fallbeils

#6156

Post by alanlee » 14 Feb 2017, 12:05

fredric wrote:
Pete26 wrote:Supposedly there were only six Mannhardt fallbeils ever made in 1860s. They were also used in several Central Executions sites of the Third Reich.

Stuttgart Oberlandesgericht. It is most likely that this fallbeil was destroyed during bombing of the Stuttgart Regional Court in September 1944. Its present whereabouts are unknown.

Munich Stadelheim prison. The fallbeil survived the war and is now at Bayerische Museum, quite well preserved. It was modified by removing the tipping board (and substituting a metal head bucket for the cloth basket?)

http://media1.faz.net/ppmedia/video/246 ... -neben.jpg

Berlin Ploetzensee prison. The fallbeil was originally in Bruchsal prison and was moved to Ploetzensee prison in the late 1930s. It was also modified by removing the tipping board, substituting a different table with straight (not angled) rear legs, and replacing the original cloth head basket with a metal head bucket. This fallbeil is possibly the one now displayed in Brandenburg-Gorden execution room.

http://boisdejustice.com/Germany/Plotzensee.JPG

https://www.stadt-brandenburg.de/filead ... 309b47.jpg

Wolfenbuettel prison. The fallbeil was moved from Hannover prison to Wolfebuettel prison in the late 1930s. It was also slightly modified by removing the tipping board. Supposedly this fallbeil is stored disassembled in Wolfenbuettel prison to this day.

http://www.goodkindletters.com/images/G ... lotine.jpg

Hamburg Holstenglacis prison. Hamburg fallbeil was significantly modified by removing the tipping board, substituting a metal head bucket, and modifying the sledge to accept the old Hamburg wooden fallbeil blade. I believe that the fallbeil is still in existence, stored somewhere in one of Hamburg museums.

http://www.ndr.de/kultur/geschichte/chr ... tgross.jpg

Wroclaw prison. This Mannhardt fallbeil was essentially used unmodified. It had the original tipping board and cloth head basket. It is presently displayed in a Kiev museum, minus the blade which is displayed in one of Polish museums.

http://images.ioh.pl/Online/IOH10/obozy/2-2_m.jpg

http://www.gilotyna.we.wroclawiu.pl/Pol ... a2%20m.jpg

So in summary, five out of six original Mannhardts are still in existence and no doubt could be easily restored to be operational again. One open question is whether any Stuttgart Mannhardt fallbeil parts were ever used to made the all metal Mannhardt lookalike fallbeil which was used in Bruchsal prison beginning with 1944. To answer this question, we need to know the exact date the all metal Bruchsal fallbeil was first brought into Bruchsal prison.

http://boisdejustice.com/Germany/Strasbourg.JPG
The following information from several sources:
In May, 1944 a new execution chamber was built at Bruchsal and equipped with a fallbeil from Strasburg. This fallbeil was inspected by
Reichhart, approved and shipped to Bruchsal. Nowhere have I found a reference to parts from Stuttgart's destroyed fallbeil being used.
It is reported to have been used from June 22, 1944 to Jan. 25, 1945. It is estimated that about 150 fallbeil executions were carried out.
I have read somewhere that the Strasburg/Bruchsal fallbeil (the all-metal Mannhardt-style machine) was destroyed in an air raid.
My question is : Have any offical record existed about this 150 executions ? and Who and Why they had suffered this horrible penalty.

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6157

Post by fredric » 14 Feb 2017, 17:44

I have not found official documentation of the executions.
However it must exist. Reich prisons were meticulous in this regard, possibly (my conjecture) because of the
payment regulations for scharfrichters. We know Bruchsal replaced Stuttgart as an official, central execution site.
so it was quite new and logically would have adhered to regulations.
Bruchsal today is a maximum security prison. It may have a records department.
It does not,to my knowledge, have a memorial center. Perhaps Baden archives would have the records. You ask an interesting
question, one that should be explored. I assume you have seen the interior b/w photos of the Bruchsal execution building on this
site; there also was an article in the Bruchsal newspaper about the demolition of the execution building and it included color
photos; the reason I mention this is that the newspaper itself might know where records were kept. There is a link on the this
forum topic to the paper.
I have found numbers ranging from as few as 50 beheadings to over 150. Some years ago I communicated with a retired U.S. Army officer
who oversaw some post-war executions at Bruchsal (hangings). I ask, through his son, if his father remembered a
guillotine being at the prison; the reply was that there was no guillotine. This of course would the be "all-metal" Mannhardt
shipped to Bruchsal in 1944 so it either was dismantled and stored, scrapped or was in fact destroyed in an air raid.

Pete26
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Bruchsal execution shed and guillotine

#6158

Post by Pete26 » 15 Feb 2017, 05:24

For the benefit of new members I will repost the photos of Bruchsal prison execution shed and guillotine:

Image

Bruchsal prison execution shed which housed the guillotine. It was 6 meters deep and 15 meters long. It was divided into three rooms: an anteroom where the condemned prisoners were presented and their identity verified, the actual execution room with guillotine, and a room for the executioner.

http://archiv.bruchsal.org/sites/defaul ... roesse.JPG

Image

The guillotine stood by the pole attached to the wall.

http://archiv.bruchsal.org/sites/defaul ... rrelse.jpg

Image

Executioner's room with a sink

http://archiv.bruchsal.org/sites/defaul ... rrelse.jpg

Image

Bruchsal all metal guillotine

http://archiv.bruchsal.org/sites/defaul ... rrelse.jpg

The Bruchsal executioner was Johann Reichhart. It is obvious that he preferred Mannhardt guillotine over Tegel type. All the execution sites he typically served (Munich Stadelheim, Stuttgart, Bruchsal were equipped with a Mannhardt type guillotine , or at least one that looked like a Mannhardt in Bruchsal. It looks obvious that the all metal Bruchsal guillotine was made at his request. Johann Reichhart served for some time was an executioner at Vienna Regional court, which was equipped with a Tegel type guillotine. This guillotine supposedly frequently malfunctioned and Reichhart disliked it.

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alanlee
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6159

Post by alanlee » 15 Feb 2017, 12:34

Wow, these picture are rare. But my question remaining. If any archive which explained such beheading case in detail existing or not ? It is very interesting who has received this horrible penalty.

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6160

Post by fredric » 15 Feb 2017, 17:11

Numerous detailed descriptions are available. However I am not sure if by "beheading case" you mean a description of how the fallbeil was used (i.e. the protocol) or how it was used at Bruchsal.
The layout of the Bruchsal execution chamber is fairly standard and its design/construction are described in "Zentral Hinrichtungssttan" listed below. Perhaps you know that each executioner and team had their own method so long as they stayed within the general protocol and
specified time limits. Or by "beheading case" do you mean an explanation of the set up and operation of the "case sword" (fallbeil) itself?
That I could provide because execution protocol in WW2 Germany is an area of my interest.
The best sources are in German. I list two in German and two in English. Richard Evans' great Rituals of Retribution is the finest.
I have not found detailed documentation of Bruchsal. Don't know the reason but I keep looking.

Recommended: Tod durch das Fallbeil, Dachs
Zentrale Hinrichtungsstatten, Thomas Waltenbacher
Guillotine by Robert Frederick Opie
Rituals of Retribution by Richard Evans

Pete26
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Location: USA

Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6161

Post by Pete26 » 15 Feb 2017, 18:55

alanlee wrote:Wow, these picture are rare. But my question remaining. If any archive which explained such beheading case in detail existing or not ? It is very interesting who has received this horrible penalty.
There are detailed execution records avaialble for some execution sites. If you search this forum, you will find a list of 1075 people who were beheaded in Pankrac prison. A complete execution book record kept by executioner Alois Weiss has been preserved for this site. Also, there is list of at least 500 people who were beheaded in Vienna. I have posted numerous photographs of many people beheaded in Vienna. The 1946 KPO pamphlet "Guillotinierten" contains names and execution record of more than 1100 people beheaded in Vienna. Recently I posted a list of over 400 people who were beheaded in Stuttgart. I have a book with a detailed list of people beheaded in Hamburg and Altona between 1933 and 1945. Zaluji , Pankracka Kalvarie book, volume II has photographs of over 700 people beheaded in Pankrac prison. Bruchsal is a only one execution site and the number of people beheaded there is comparatively small.

So in summary, some execution site execution records are readily available and many are posted on this forum. Some records are kept in German archives and require research to access them.

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alanlee
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6162

Post by alanlee » 16 Feb 2017, 06:45

fredric wrote:Numerous detailed descriptions are available. However I am not sure if by "beheading case" you mean a description of how the fallbeil was used (i.e. the protocol) or how it was used at Bruchsal.
The layout of the Bruchsal execution chamber is fairly standard and its design/construction are described in "Zentral Hinrichtungssttan" listed below. Perhaps you know that each executioner and team had their own method so long as they stayed within the general protocol and
specified time limits. Or by "beheading case" do you mean an explanation of the set up and operation of the "case sword" (fallbeil) itself?
That I could provide because execution protocol in WW2 Germany is an area of my interest.
The best sources are in German. I list two in German and two in English. Richard Evans' great Rituals of Retribution is the finest.
I have not found detailed documentation of Bruchsal. Don't know the reason but I keep looking.

Recommended: Tod durch das Fallbeil, Dachs
Zentrale Hinrichtungsstatten, Thomas Waltenbacher
Guillotine by Robert Frederick Opie
Rituals of Retribution by Richard Evans
Many thanks, Indeed, I have only focus on beheading execution in WW2 Germany.

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alanlee
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Location: Hong Kong

Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6163

Post by alanlee » 16 Feb 2017, 06:53

Pete26 wrote:
alanlee wrote:Wow, these picture are rare. But my question remaining. If any archive which explained such beheading case in detail existing or not ? It is very interesting who has received this horrible penalty.
There are detailed execution records avaialble for some execution sites. If you search this forum, you will find a list of 1075 people who were beheaded in Pankrac prison. A complete execution book record kept by executioner Alois Weiss has been preserved for this site. Also, there is list of at least 500 people who were beheaded in Vienna. I have posted numerous photographs of many people beheaded in Vienna. The 1946 KPO pamphlet "Guillotinierten" contains names and execution record of more than 1100 people beheaded in Vienna. Recently I posted a list of over 400 people who were beheaded in Stuttgart. I have a book with a detailed list of people beheaded in Hamburg and Altona between 1933 and 1945. Zaluji , Pankracka Kalvarie book, volume II has photographs of over 700 people beheaded in Pankrac prison. Bruchsal is a only one execution site and the number of people beheaded there is comparatively small.

So in summary, some execution site execution records are readily available and many are posted on this forum. Some records are kept in German archives and require research to access them.
Great, very useful indeed

Pete26
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Location: USA

Konigsberg prison beheadings

#6164

Post by Pete26 » 16 Feb 2017, 07:45

There is little data on how many guillotine executions were carried out in Konigsberg prison (one of the Central Execution sites of the Third Reich). 400 guillotined corpses from Konigsberg prison at Danzig Anatomical Institute are mentioned in this book (History vs. Apologetics: The Holocaust, the Third Reich, and the Catholic Church By David Cymet).

https://books.google.com/books?id=8fUJ9 ... ne&f=false

Some photos from the Danzig Anatomical Institute:

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/oHjc386CS5E/hqdefault.jpg

http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh/multim ... _1_web.jpg

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/107758 ... BPnw%3D%3D

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/fak ... adings.jpg
Last edited by Pete26 on 16 Feb 2017, 16:44, edited 1 time in total.

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alanlee
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6165

Post by alanlee » 16 Feb 2017, 14:50

horrible, people has been slaughted as same as animal

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