German SS massacre wounded GI's in village of Graignes

[Caldric]

Anyone have more information this alleged SS war crime? It is going to be on the History Channel tonight but I had not heard of it.

They landed some twenty miles from their target and found themselves surrounded--or immersed--in deep marshes. Many died, and most of the survivors lost their heavy weapons to the dark waters and were short on food. But the paratroopers of the 507th PIR found allies in the townspeople of the nearby village of Graignes...

D-DAY: THE SECRET MASSACRE reveals how under two hundred soldiers and the citizens of this small town banded together to face and entire SS Panzer regiment of some 2,000 troops, holding off the German force for nearly a week. In the end, outmanned and under-armed, the survivors fled, trusting that the Geneva Convention would protect the wounded, left behind with the medical officer in the local church. Instead, the SS extracted a brutal revenge on the remnants of the force that had withheld them so valiantly.

[Kurt_Steiner]

This issue really puzzles me...

According to what I know, the 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division was the only Waffen SS unit which fought against the 82nd Airborne Division, to which the 507th PIR was attached since December, 1943 (from http://www.ww2-airborne.us/units/507/507.html ). And, as far as I know, there are no documented atrocities of the 17th SS.

How odd... Interesting, anyway.

Best regards

[Caldric]

This issue really puzzles me...

According to what I know, the 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division was the only Waffen SS unit which fought against the 82nd Airborne Division, to which the 507th PIR was attached since December, 1943 (from http://www.ww2-airborne.us/units/507/507.html). And, as far as I know, there are no documented atrocities of the 17th SS.

How odd... Interesting, anyway.

Best regards

Well unfortunately I fell to sleep before it came on last night. It was late starting and I was tired so I will have to wait and see what they have to say next time. Was hoping it would give me a place to start looking.

[Durand]

Hallo,

PBS recently aired an hour long presentation on the 507th PIR called "D-Day: Down to Earth". According to the program, the troopers of the 507th were widely scattered across the Cotentin Peninsula. A contingent ended up at Graignes where they decided to stay. Between Tuesday, June 6, and the following Sunday, they engaged in skirmishes with German patrols. On that Sunday, the 17th SS attacked the village in overwhelming numbers and forced the troopers to withdraw. The decision was made to leave the wounded behind in the makeshift aid station in the local church. The doctor and two assistants also volunteered to stay behind. It was reported that the doctor, his assistants, the wounded, and a number of villagers were executed by soldiers of the 17th SS. The numbers killed at Graignes were reported as 32 villagers and 30 troopers of the 507th. 23 of them were executed. The numbers were printed on the screen and the way it was written it was not clear if the 23 executed referred only to the troopers plus the 32 villagers or if the 23 executed people was a combination of troopers and villagers.

I would also like to learn more about this incident.

Regards,

Durand

[Annelie]

Caldric wrote

unfortunately I fell to sleep before it came on last night. It was late starting and I was tired so I will have to wait and see what they have to say next time

LOLOL.....glad I am not the only that this happens to.

I did not watch the program but I did watch a program in which
a few survivors of the unit went back to the area and town and
visited the locals of which the American veterans also visited
the German grave sites.

They all concluded that everyone did what they had to and bore no
ill feelings...sad but poignant.

So many graves, so young the lives.

[Kurt_Steiner]

So, is it true that the massacre was done by members of the 17th SS Panzergrenadier? How odd... Never heard of it and I don't find any source that comments this.

Rather odd.

Best regards

[Durand]

Hallo,

Annelie wrote:

I did not watch the program but I did watch a program in which
a few survivors of the unit went back to the area and town and
visited the locals of which the American veterans also visited
the German grave sites.

They all concluded that everyone did what they had to and bore no ill feelings

It sounds like the program you saw was "D-Day: Down to Earth". The last 20 minutes or so was devoted to a tour by the veterans in July 2002. The phrase "They all concluded" is a bit over the top. One of the veterans interviewed said he also decided to visit a German cemetery and he indicated that the Germans did what they had to do. However, this comment was not in specific reference to the event at Graignes.

For K.S.: The program was based on the book "Down to Earth" by Martin Morgan. Presumably it contains more information on the incident.

Regards,

Durand

[Annelie]

Durand

Yes, I believe it may have been for I did not catch the intial
title of the program but tuned in later.

The phrase "They all concluded" is a bit over the top. One of the veterans interviewed said he also decided to visit a German cemetery and he indicated that the Germans did what they had to do. However, this comment was not in specific reference to the event at Graignes.

Since the segment I watched was in reference to Graignes I just
understood that this was what he was referring to?
Of course that statement could hold true across the board.

[David Thompson]

Kurt Steiner -- You said:

So, is it true that the massacre was done by members of the 17th SS Panzergrenadier? How odd... Never heard of it and I don't find any source that comments this.

Rather odd.

It's not odd in this section of the forum. It happens all the time.

You also said:

And, as far as I know, there are no documented atrocities of the 17th SS.

Here are 4 cases involving the "Goetz von Berlichingen" Division from West German courts, found on the JuNSV site:

Case Nr.111
Crime Category: Final Phase Crimes
Accused:
Küster, Friedrich Erich 10 Years 3 Months
Court:
LG Ellwangen 490120
OLG Stuttgart 490527
Country where the crime was committed: Germany
Crime Location: Ellwangen/Jagst
Crime Date: 4504
Victims: Prisoners, Civilians
Nationality: unknown, German
Office: Waffen-SS SS-Bataillon 'Götz von Berlichingen'
Subject of the proceeding: Shooting of a number of foreign concentration camp prisoners, in part for trying to escape; mishandling of civilians, who had made derogatory remarks about Hitler, and demolition of the 'Josefinum' in Ellwangen

Published in Justiz und NS-Verbrechen Vol. III

Case Nr.466
Crime Category: Final Phase Crimes
Accused:
M., Heinz Proceeding suspended
Court:
LG Nürnberg-Fürth 581001
BGH 571022
Country where the crime was committed: Germany
Crime Location: Burgthann
Crime Date: 450417
Victims: Civilians
Nationality: German
Office: Waffen-SS 17.SS-Panzergrenadier-Division 'Götz von Berlichingen'
Subject of the proceeding: Shooting of the mayor of Burgthann, who, summoned by the Americans, had ordered to have white flags hoisted in the town

Published in Justiz und NS-Verbrechen Vol. XV

Case Nr.315
Crime Category: Final Phase Crimes
Accused:
H., Walter Acquittal
Court:
LG Regensburg 520505
Country where the crime was committed: Germany
Crime Location: Dietfurt (Mittelfranken)
Crime Date: 450425
Victims: Jews
Nationality: German
Office: Waffen-SS SS-Division 'Götz von Berlichingen'
Subject of the proceeding: Shooting of a Jewish dentist during the final days of the war

Published in Justiz und NS-Verbrechen Vol. IX

Case Nr.243
Crime Category: Final Phase Crimes
Accused:
H., Walter 5 Years
M., Ludwig 3 Years
Court:
LG Landshut 500924
Country where the crime was committed: Germany
Crime Location: Ebrantshausen, Holz (near Bad Wiessee)
Crime Date: 450428, 450502
Victims: Civilians, Prisoners
Nationality: German, unknown
Office: Waffen-SS SS-Division 'Götz von Berlichingen'
Subject of the proceeding: Killing of a civilian, who had a white flag held available in order to hoist it at the church at the arrival of the Americans, as well as summons to shoot concentration camp prisoners

Published in Justiz und NS-Verbrechen Vol. VII

This collection of unrelated cases of crimes attributed to members of the "Goetz von Berlichingen" Division is off-topic for this thread, so if a discussion starts to develop I'll give the subject a thread of its own.

[Kurt_Steiner]

Dear David,

Thank you very much for your info about the GvB. I admit I didn't knew a word about it and, though I'm not surprised, I'm a bit dissapointed -mainly because of the fiability of some of my sources... -, even if I know too well that the Waffen-SS were not angels, indeed.

Best regards

[Caldric]

Caldric wrote

unfortunately I fell to sleep before it came on last night. It was late starting and I was tired so I will have to wait and see what they have to say next time

LOLOL.....glad I am not the only that this happens to.

I did not watch the program but I did watch a program in which
a few survivors of the unit went back to the area and town and
visited the locals of which the American veterans also visited
the German grave sites.

They all concluded that everyone did what they had to and bore no
ill feelings...sad but poignant.

So many graves, so young the lives.

Yeah I wish I would stayed awake now!

I will have to keep searching.

Thanks to both you and Durand for the little information though.

[TH Albright]

All very interesting...The behavior of lead elements of GvB seems to mirror that of the HJ Division at Abby Ardenne and Authie, except on a smaller scale, where an attempt to throw back the Allied vanguard was accompanied by typically ruthless Waffen SS behavior. It seems, based on the evidence of several high profile war crimes, that Waffen SS formations were most liable to shoot prisoners and/or civilians in the conduct of fast moving operations where it was perceived that the outcome of these operations was critical to the campaign. Waffen SS formations were adept at "putting on the game face" for these operations, whether it was to drive the Canadians back into the sea or destroy an American paratroop bridgehead. The massacre by KG Peiper of American POWs at Baugnez and other stops in the Ardennes also was indictive of this "win at all costs" attitude to tactical operations. Conversely, once battle stagnated into more static operations, Waffen SS units seem to have taken a more "conventional", even chivalrous approach to prisoners and civilians. No recorded atrocities by the many Waffen SS armored units in Normandy are documented during the hard, long and bloody defensive struggles in and around Caen and St. Lo. Similarly, KG Peiper, once stopped at Stoumont and surrounded at La Gleize, also remarkably held to the Geneva convention in its treatment of the local populace and hundreds of American POWs in its care under extreme duress. One notable exception to my argument is the good behavior of "Hohenstauffen" and "Frundsberg" during Operation Market Garden. This campaign could have easily been a Waffen SS battle of annihilation with the rapid destruction of British forces being the key to success. Its a tribute to the leadership of those units, particularly Bittrich, Harmel and Harzer, that no recorded atrocities took place, and that POWs and wounded were well treated. Both of these SS divisions throughout the war. along with "Nord", proved that not all Waffen SS units did commit war crimes and that the Waffen SS was capable of good behavior in extreme situations.

[TH Albright]

Furhet info on this massacre ..w.71stsos.com/norhttp://wwmandygeobuckley.html

However, its hard to believe that 500 WSS troops were killed in this two battle, but the impression was that the paratroops held out far longer than expected and inflicted disproportionate casualties on GvB, frustrating their attempts to quickly eliminate a vital bridgehead in the invasion(was this the inspiration for the fictional battle in Saving Private Ryan, perhaps). Obviously a GvB officer gave the order for the massacre, perhaps motivated more by spite than any tactical rationale..why wasn't someone charged in this crime? Because we had troops who did disengage and withdraw..someone must have known which GvB unit was involved, etc. Why wasn't their a post-war dragnet ala Malmedy in which the US Army vetted all GvB personnel? Good questions I hope. In many respects this massacre was worst than Baugnez by many degrees, because there seemed to be no fog-of-war factor and/or tactical "necessity" that could possibly have been a reason for the crime. The civilians were involved in no real or perceived support of partisans or giving any tactical support to the Americans. The divisional commander of GvB, Werner Ostendorf, was by all acounts a humane and honorable officer; he refused to renounce his Church affiliation under pressure from Himmler (Yerger). Obviously, the decision to murder the POWs and civilians was made by an officer on the spot. Perhaps its time for some detective work....

[Annelie]

TH Albright

The divisional commander of GvB, Werner Ostendorf, was by all acounts a humane and honorable officer; he refused to renounce his Church affiliation under pressure from Himmler (Yerger). Obviously, the decision to murder the POWs and civilians was made by an officer on the spot. Perhaps its time for some detective work....

As you say its time for detective work. I also find it hard to believe.
The unbiased truth should come to light for all concerned.

[Durand]

Hallo,

Thanks to TH Albright for the additional information. However, I think the link you meant to provide was:

http://www.71stsos.com/normandygeobuckley.html

Once at the site, scroll down almost to the very bottom to the heading of Glider 42.

Regards,

Durand