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"Aktion Reinhardt" -- What did it denote?

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed.
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Postby Earldor on 18 Nov 2004 21:08

The suggestion from your post is that you believe the term "Aktion Reinhardt" is restricted to the SS robbery or plunder operation, and not to the related murders and enslavement which accompanied it. Is that an accurate statement of your position?


Yes, that is precisely my meaning.


Ok, I have trouble stomaching this. Mills is flat out wrong. He, again, dismisses evidence that doesn't support his irvingesque claims.

The indications are that "Aktion Reinhardt" was in operation at many of the concentration camps under the authority of the WVHA, and that it consisted of the processing and disposal of the property confiscated from the prisoners.


The WVHA had a hand in the looting process of AR. As Michael Thad Allen says in his book "Hitler's Slave Lords":
    "Globocnik had taken charge of what was code-named the Operation Reinhard. The operation was twofold. First, Globocnik intended to rid the East once and for all of Jews. Second, he designed the operation to extract all possible remaining wealth from the murdered Jews for transfer to Reich accounts. At first there seemed no contradiction between industry and genocide, and the WVHA participated in these plans from the beginning by fencing the stolen property."


That is the link between AR and WVHA. Fencing of the stolen property of the murdered Jews.

ARC website lists the AR main tasks as:
- the overall planning of the deportations and extermination activities of the entire operation.
- building the death camps.
- co-ordinating the deportations of Jews from the different districts to the death camps.
- killing the Jews there.
- seizing the assets and valuables of the victims and handing them over to the appropriate Reich authorities.

The Jewish property seized in the Polish ghettos during the deportations of their inhabitants in 1942, and subsequently from the Jews arriving at the killing centres, was also processed through the organisation set up to administer "Aktion Reinhardt". For that purpose, Globocnik set up within his SSPF headquarters at Lublin an office "Einsatz Reinhardt", headed by Hermann Höfle.

I think it was the existence of the office "Einsatz Reinhardt" at Globocnik's headquarters that has led to the impression that "Aktion Reinhardt" was under Globocnik's command.


Pray tell, on what grounds do you distance Höfle, a subordinate of Globocnik's, from Globocnik's authority? We know from numerous sources that Höfle, along with Lerch, Claasen, Michalsen, et al. conducted the "evacuations" of the major ghettos to the AR death camps and were intimately involved in Wirth's death factories. Their duties were definately not simply to "look after the loot."

http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/hoefle.html

We've been through this several times. Why do you persist in repeating your distorted tales?

Careful reading of the evidence shows that "Aktion Reinhardt" was separate from Globocnik's assignment to deport the Jews of Distrikt Lublin and then of the whole of the Generalgouvernement, and to exterminate those of them assessed as unusable for forced labour (some 60% according to the Goebbels diary entry of 27 March 1942).


IMHO Your "careful reading" = willful distortion

There was a link between "Aktion Reinhardt" and Globocnik's deportation and extermination operation in that the Jewish property rendered ownerless by the latter was processed through "Aktion Reinhardt". For that reason, Globocnik was responsible for the operation of "Aktion Reinhardt" in the Generalgouvernment, and for rendering an account of all the Jewish property seized in that area and passing through the hands of the Lublin "Einsatz Reinhardt". However, it seems that Pohl was in overall command of the whole "Aktion Reinhardt".


Unfounded assertion.

I prefer to call the killing centres set up at Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka the "Globocnik camps", since that is an accurate designation.


No doubt you think it is so.

However, this document (which you have been introduced to several times before)
http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/pic/globstaff.jpg states that Höfle, Thomalla, et al. were working under the title "Sonderaktion Reinhardt."

This document (along with the other promotion list Sergey linked to) http://www.deathcamps.org/euthanasia/pic/bigfranz1.jpg ties Kurt Franz, Johann Niemann, Josef Oberhauser and Gottlieb Schwarz to the Operation Reinhard. All of these men worked in what you insist on calling the "Globocnik death camps", but looks a lot like they were part of the Aktion Reinhard after all.

An even more accurate designation would be the "Wirth camps", since Christian Wirth was the overall commander of all three killing centres. Wirth appears not to have been organisationally part of the Lublin "Einsatz Reinhardt", which was a sub-office of the Lublin Security Police office, and he and the other T-4 men appear to have been only seconded to Globocnik for the purpose of running the killing centres.


There is a connection to the Führer's Chancellory as well through Wirth et al. but this doesn't mean that the killing and looting were solely a T4 program and doesn't prevent Globocnik from being the man in charge of the overall operation.
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Postby michael mills on 19 Nov 2004 01:56

Concerning the variant "Reinhart" used by Höfle, the most recent biography of Globocnik ("Odilo Globocnik, Hitler's man in the East", by Joseph Poprzeczny, published Jefferson, N.C., McFarland, 2004) states that Höfle was known for his bad spelling.

So the variant "Reinhart" may simply have been a misspelling by Höfle.

A number of things are clear.

There was an official operation designated "Aktion Reinhardt", under the command of the WVHA.

The name "Aktion Reinhardt" originated with the WVHA, and was first used by that organisation.

The designation "Aktion Reinhardt", as used by the WVHA, referred to the processing of property seized from deported Jews and more broadly from persons admitted to the WVHA concentration camps.

There was a part of Globocnik's office officially designated "Einsatz Reinhardt", as shown by its official stamp.

It is less clear where the name "Reinhardt" originated.

It is also clear that Globocnik in his correspondence for a long time clung to the name "Reinhard" to designate both part of his office and the T-4 staff under Wirth who had been seconded to him. The question is whether that was an official usage, or Globocnik's personal idiosyncracy.

It is noteworthy that the above-mentioned globocnik biography by Poprzeczny advances the theory that Globocnik was in many ways a front man for Pohl and Wirth, with Wirth running the extermination of the Polish Jews unfit for labour and Pohl running the processing of the seized property coming from the camps where Wirth carried out the liquidation.

It may be that by using the name "Reinhard", thereby invoking the person of Reinhard Heydrich rather than of the State Secretary of the Ministry of Finance to whom the WVHA handed over the confiscated property it had processed, Globocnik was trying to assert his independence of Pohl in his own bailiwick. However that can only be a surmise.

The statement by Thad Allen that "Globocnik intended to rid the East once and for all of Jews" is an exaggeration.

Globocnik did not have authority for the whole "East", which in German official parlance included the occupied Soviet territories as well as occupied Poland.

Globocnik's authority was limited to Distrikt Lublin, of which he was SSPF. In that capacity, he was given the assignment of deporting the Jews of Lublin Distrikt, including the liquidation (to use Goebbels' term) of those Jews unusable for forced labour.

His authority in regard to that assignment was quickly extended to the Jews of Distrikt Lemberg, and finally to the whole of the Generalgouvernement.

But he never had any authority for Jewish policy outside the Generalgouvernement, and certainly not in the occupied Soviet territories. His only authority to the east of the Generalgouvernement was in relation to his assignment of creating settlements of German farmer-soldiers.
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Postby Earldor on 19 Nov 2004 13:36

michael mills wrote:Concerning the variant "Reinhart" used by Höfle, the most recent biography of Globocnik ("Odilo Globocnik, Hitler's man in the East", by Joseph Poprzeczny, published Jefferson, N.C., McFarland, 2004) states that Höfle was known for his bad spelling.

So the variant "Reinhart" may simply have been a misspelling by Höfle.


Oh, so now you believe it when Poprzeczny says it, but when Alf and I have told you the same thing, you somehow simply disregarded it...

A number of things are clear.


Ïndeed, but you still insist on your own spin on the matter.

There was an official operation designated "Aktion Reinhardt", under the command of the WVHA.


Which, in the case of WVHA mainly refers to the looting of the victims and fencing their property. This doesn't restrict the Operation Reinhard to an economic enterprise.

This is perfectly illustrated by the documents Sergey and I have brought to your attention. They tie Franz, Wirth, Schwarz, and other Operation Reinhard death camp men with the Operation Reinhard (spelling and labeling of the operation notwithstanding). They tie Höfle, Claasen, Lerch, and others to Operation Reinhard. I do hope that you concede that the death camp personnel didn't simply look after the loot.

The name "Aktion Reinhardt" originated with the WVHA, and was first used by that organisation.


You have no basis for this claim. We do not have a full correspondance relating to Operation Reinhard by any Nazi organization, and it is clear from the corresopondance we do have that the Operation encompassed much more than simply the looting of the victims.
There was a part of Globocnik's office officially designated "Einsatz Reinhardt", as shown by its official stamp.


So, basically your point is that there is a bureaucratic, semantic difference between "Aktion Reinhardt" and "Einsatz Reinhardt." The first being the economic plunder operation conducted by Globocnik in co-operation with WVHA and the latter being the rest (Planning of the operations, deportation of Jews, building of the death camps, killing the Jews).

There is insufficient evidence to back up your conclusions.

Personnally I believe that the differences in the naming conventions is inconsequential.

It is less clear where the name "Reinhardt" originated.


Keep on pretending, Michael.

It is also clear that Globocnik in his correspondence for a long time clung to the name "Reinhard" to designate both part of his office and the T-4 staff under Wirth who had been seconded to him. The question is whether that was an official usage, or Globocnik's personal idiosyncracy.


Poprzezcny's book leaves no doubt that Globocnik was the head of Operation Reinhard, and both he and I are using the name in its correct context, ie. the one that includes Wirth's death camps, deportations of the Jews and the looting.

It is noteworthy that the above-mentioned globocnik biography by Poprzeczny advances the theory that Globocnik was in many ways a front man for Pohl and Wirth, with Wirth running the extermination of the Polish Jews unfit for labour and Pohl running the processing of the seized property coming from the camps where Wirth carried out the liquidation.


Could you quote the relevant passages from the book so that we may be sure that you are not misrepresenting Poprzeczny?

The statement by Thad Allen that "Globocnik intended to rid the East once and for all of Jews" is an exaggeration.

Globocnik did not have authority for the whole "East", which in German official parlance included the occupied Soviet territories as well as occupied Poland.


As we know the "East" in Nazi parlance was a very vague concept. You are too fast, again, to draw your own conclusions about the definition of the word here. And your argument is based only on this.

As the Operation Reinhard death camps drew victims from all over Europe, the SU included (and we do not know how far the original planners had in mind) I'm ready to accept the "East" as a general term referring to the destination told to the uninitiated.

Globocnik did have authority overstepping the boundaries of his SSPF fiefdom in matters relating to Operation Reinhard. This is clearly shown e.g. by the fact that his men conducted the deportations to the OR death camps in areas outside of Lublin.
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Postby David Thompson on 20 Nov 2004 06:55

Some documents of possible interest:

(1) Declaration of Adolf Eichmann, in two parts:

(a)
The final solution depends . . . it's mixed up with . . . something that happened after the start of the German-Russian war.

At that time [July 31, 1941] Reich Marshal Goering issued a document conferring a special title on the head of the Security Police and the SD [SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Reinhard Heydrich]. I'm trying to remember the wording. Was it "Deputy Charged with the Final Solution," or was it "with the Solution of the Jewish Question"?

We can only be sure that it relates to the period when emigration had ceased to be possible and the more radical solution was resorted to. The war with the Soviet Union began in June 1941, I think. And I believe it was two months later, or maybe three, that Heydrich sent for me. I reported. He said to me: 'The Fuehrer, well, emigration is . . .' He began with a little speech. And then: 'The Fuehrer has ordered physical extermination.' These were his words. And as though wanting to test their effect on me, he made a long pause, which was not at all his way. I can still remember that. In the first moment, I didn't grasp the implications, because he chose his words so carefully. But then I understood. I didn't say anything, what could I say? Because I'd never thought of a . . . of such a thing, of that sort of violent solution. And then he said to me: 'Eichmann, go and see [SS-Brigadefuehrer Odilo] Globocnik in Lublin.' (Eichmann Interr 74-5)


(b)
In the early Autumn of 1941, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Karl Adolf Eichmann visited SS-Brigadefuehrer Odilo Globocnik, the Higher SS and Police Leader of Lublin, Poland: "[SS-Brigadefuehrer Odilo] Globocnik, the former Gauleiter of Vienna [later promoted to SS-Gruppenfuehrer], was then head of the SS and the police in the Lublin district of the Government General. Anyway, Heydrich said: 'Go and see Globocnik, the Fuehrer has already given him instructions. Take a look and see how he's getting on with his program. I believe he's using Russian anti-tank trenches for exterminating the Jews.' As ordered, I went to Lublin, located the headquarters of SS and Police Commander Globocnik, and reported to the Gruppenfuehrer. I told him Heydrich had sent me, because the Fuehrer had ordered the physical extermination of the Jews." (Eichmann Interr 76)


(2) Letter from SS-Oberfuehrer Viktor Brack to Himmler, 23 June 1942 (full text at
viewtopic.php?p=579728#579728 )

On the instructions of Reich Leader [Reichsleiter] Bouhler I placed some of my men -- already some time ago -- at the disposal of Brigadefuehrer Globocnik to execute his special mission. On his renewed request I have now transferred additional personnel. On this occasion Brigadefuehrer Globocnik stated his opinion that the whole Jewish action should be completed as quickly as possible so that one would not get caught in the middle of it one day if some difficulties should make a stoppage of the action necessary. You, yourself, Reich Leader, have already expressed your view, that work should progress quickly for reasons of camouflage alone.

This letter apparently refers to Christian Wirth and his T-4 euthanasia murder group, who had set up camps at Belzec, Sobibor and Majdanek (Lublin).

(3) Dr. Konrad Morgen's description in his IMT testimony:
MORGEN: One day I received a report from the commander of the Security Police in Lublin. He reported that in a Jewish labor camp in his district a Jewish wedding had taken place. There had been 1,100 invited guests at this wedding

HERR PELCKMANN: Go on witness, a little faster.

MORGEN: As I said before, 1,100 guests participated in this Jewish wedding. What followed was described as quite extraordinary owing to the gluttonous consumption of food and alcoholic drinks. Among these Jews were members of the camp guard, that is to say some SS men, who joined in this revelry. This report only came into my hands in a roundabout way, some months later, due to the fact that the Commander of the Security Police suspected that the circumstances indicated that some criminal acts had occurred. This was my impression as well, and I thought that this

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report would give me a clue to another big case of criminal corruption. With this in mind, I went to Lublin and called at the Security/ Police there, but all they would tell me was that the events happened at a camp of the Deutsche Ausrustungswerke. But nothing was known there. I was told it might possibly be a rather odd and shrouded (this was the actual term used) camp in the vicinity of Lublin. I found out the camp and the commander, who was Kriminalkommissar Wirth.

I asked Wirth whether this report was true or what it meant. To my great astonishment, Wirth admitted it. I asked him why he permitted members of his command to do such things and Wirth then revealed to me that on the Fuehrer's orders he had to carry out the destruction of Jews.

HERR PELCKMANN: Please go on, Witness, to describe your investigations.

MORGEN: I asked Wirth what this had to do with the Jewish wedding. Then, Wirth described the method by which he carried out the extermination of Jews, and he said something like this: "One has to fight the Jews with their own weapons, that is to say "pardon me for using this expression -- "one has to cheat them."

Wirth staged an enormous deceptive maneuver. He first selected Jews who would, he thought, serve as column leaders, then these Jews brought along other Jews, who worked under them. With that smaller or medium-sized detachment of Jews, he began to build up the extermination camps. He extended this staff of Jews, and with these Jews Wirth himself carried out the extermination of the Jews.

Wirth said that he had four extermination camps and that about 5,000 Jews were working at the extermination of Jews and the seizure of Jewish property. In order to win Jews for this business of extermination and plundering of their brethren of race and creed, Wirth gave them every freedom and, so to speak, gave them a financial interest in the spoliation of the dead victims. As a result of this attitude, this sumptuous Jewish wedding had come about.

Then I asked Wirth how he killed Jews with these Jewish agents of his. Wirth described the whole procedure that went off like a film every time. The extermination camps were in the east of the Government General, in big forests or uninhabited wastelands. They were built up like a Potemkin village. The people arriving there had the impression of entering a city or a township. The train drove into a dummy railroad station. After the escorts and the train personnel had left the area, the cars were opened and the Jews got out. They were surrounded by these Jewish labor detachments, and Kriminalkommissar Wirth or one of his representatives made a speech. He said, "Jews, you were brought here to be resettled, but

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before we organize this future Jewish State, you must of course learn how to work. You must learn a new trade. You will be taught that here. Our routine here is, first, every one must take off his clothes so that your clothing can be disinfected, and you can have a bath so that no epidemics will be brought into the camp."

After he had found such calming words for his victims, they started on the road to death. Men and women were separated. At the first place, one had to deliver the hat; at the next one, the coat, collar, shirt, down to the shoes and socks.

These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a check at each one so that the people believed that they would get their things back. The other Jews had to receive the things and hurry up the new arrivals so that they should not have time to think. The whole thing was like an assembly line. After the last stop they reached a big room, and were told that this was the bath. When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let into the room.

As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened, and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special procedure which Wirth had invented, they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel.

HERR PELCKMANN: Was Wirth a member of the SS?

MORGEN: No, he was a Kriminalkommissar in Stuttgart.

HERR PELCKMANN: Did you ask Wirth how he arrived at this devilish system?

MORGEN: When Wirth took over the extermination of the Jews, he was already a specialist in mass-destruction of human beings. He had previously carried out the task of getting rid of the incurably insane. By order of the Fuehrer himself, whose order was transmitted through the Chancellery of the Fuehrer, he had, at the beginning of the war, set up a detachment for this purpose, probably composed of a few officials of his, as I believe, the remainder being agents and spies of the Criminal Police.

Wirth very vividly described how he went about carrying out this assignment. He received no aid, no instructions, but had to do it all by himself. He was only given an old empty building in Brandenburg. There he made his first experiments.

After much consideration and many individual experiments, he evolved his later system, and then this system was used on a large scale to exterminate the insane.

A commission of doctors previously investigated the files, and those insane who were listed by the asylums as incurable were put on a separate list. Then the asylum concerned was told one day to send these patients to another institution.

From this asylum

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the patient was transferred again, often more than once. Finally he came to Wirth's institution, where he was killed by gas and cremated.

This system, which deceived the asylums and made them unknowing accomplices, enabled him with very few assistants to exterminate large numbers of people, and this system Wirth now employed with a few alterations and improvements for the extermination of Jews. He was also given the assignment by the Fuehrer's Chancellery to exterminate the Jews.

HERR PELCKMANN: The statements which Wirth made to you must have surpassed human imagination. Did you immediately believe Wirth?

MORGEN: At first Wirth's description seemed completely fantastic to me, but in Lublin I saw one of his camps. It was a camp which collected the property or part of the property of his victims. From the piles of things -- there were an enormous number of watches piled up -- I had to realize that something frightful was going on here. I was shown the valuables. I can say that I never saw so much money at one time, especially foreign money -- all kinds of coins, from all over the world. In addition, there was a goldsmelting furnace and really prodigious bars of gold.

I also saw that the headquarters from which Wirth directed his operations was very small and inconspicuous., He had only three or four people working there for him. I spoke to them too. I saw and watched his couriers arrive. They actually came from Berlin, Tiergartenstrasse, the Fuehrer's Chancellery, and went back there. I investigated Wirth's mail and I found in it confirmation of all this.

Of course, I could not do or see all this on this first visit. I was there frequently. I pursued Wirth up to his death.

Testimony of Dr. jur. Konrad Morgen, starting at:
viewtopic.php?p=579263#579263


(4) From the NMT - WVHA Case judgment against Oswald Pohl, at:
viewtopic.php?p=567901#567901

Pohl's own statement as to his knowledge of the operation of Action Reinhardt and of his participation in the distribution of the loot is again quite sufficient. In his affidavit of 2 April 1947 (NO-2714, Pros. E. 555), he states that the action was instituted in 1941 or 1942 and was in direct charge of SS Gruppenfuehrer Globocnik; that by Himmler's direction he contacted the president of the Reich Bank to arrange for delivery of the valuables; these transactions were to be carried out in extreme secrecy. Together with Georg Loerner, Frank, and others, he visited the Reich Bank and was shown the accumulated valuables in the bank vaults.
"It was never doubted," he said, "that this loot was taken from Jews exterminated in the concentration camps. * * * As I learned in 1943, gold teeth and crowns of inmates of concentration camps were broken out of their mouths after liquidation. This gold was melted down and delivered to the Reich Bank. * * * When I received all the vouchers, setting out the economic assets received, I realized the extent of the operation. I realized that the greatest part of the textile goods listed in these reports had been taken from people who had been violently put to death and that the purpose of the operation had been the extermination of the Jews. (emphasis added)"
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Postby David Thompson on 22 Nov 2004 08:36

Another document to fill in some detail, from Ernst Klee, Willi Dressen and Volker Riess (ed.), "The Good Old Days: The Holocaust as Seen by its Perpetrators and Bystanders," Free Press, New York: 1991, pp. 228-230:

1. SS-Untersturmfuhrer Josef Oberhauser on the early days at Belzec

The camp of Belzec was situated north-east of the Tomaszow to Lemberg [Lvov] Road beyond the village of Belzec. As the camp needed a siding for the arriving transports the camp was built about 400 metres away from Belzec station. The camp itself was divided into two sections: section 1 and section 2. The siding led directly from Belzec station into section 2 of the camp, in which the undressing barracks as well as the gas installations and the burial field were situated. During the time when I myself was at Belzec, the gas installation was still housed in a hut, the interior of which was lined with sheet metal and which held about a hundred people. Section 1 just contained the huts in which the Ukrainian guards were accommodated... .

The German camp personnel were accommodated outside the camp perimeter in two stone buildings which were situated on the right-hand side of the Lemberg road. In one of these buildings there was the office, the dining-room and the dormitories. In the second building there were only dormitories.

From Christmas 1941 I was under the command of Wirth, who at that time was the commandant of Belzec camp. At that time I was liaison officer between Wirth and Globocnik's staff in Lublin. My duties included obtaining the building materials needed to extend the camp and changing over the Ukrainian guard squads where necessary. . . . Wirth's deputy was Schwarz, who had full powers of command after Wirth.

The gassing of Jews which took place in Belzec camp up till 1 August 1942 can be divided into two phases. During the first series of experiments there were two to three transports consisting of four to six freight cars each holding twenty to forty persons. On average 150 Jews were delivered and killed per transport. At that stage the gassings were not yet part of a systematic eradication action but were carried out to test and study closely the camp's capacity and the technical problems involved in carrying out a gassing. After these first gassings, Wirth and Schwarz along with the entire German personnel left Belzec. Wirth's last official duty before his departure was to gas or shoot the fifty or so work Jews of the camp including the Kapos

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[heads of working detachments]. When Wirth and his staff left I was in Lublin, where I was organizing the transport of a large amount of material. When I came back to Belzec there was no one left apart from about twenty Ukrainians guarding the place. The Ukrainian guards were under the supervision of SS-Scharfuehrer Fix. Curiously, even SS- und Polizei-Führer Globocnik did not know anything about Wirth and his staff's departure. When he found out that Wirth had disappeared, he sent me to Belzec to find out where he had gone. I found out that he had travelled to Berlin via Lemberg and Cracow without informing Globocnik of his departure.

During the following six weeks quiet reigned at Belzec camp. At the beginning of May 1942 SS-Oberfuehrer Brack from the Führer's Chancellery suddenly came to Lublin. With Globocnik he discussed resuming the extermination of the Jews. Globocnik said that he had too few people to carry out this programme. Brack stated that the euthanasia programme had stopped and that the people from T4 would from now on be detailed to him on a regular basis so that the decisions taken at the Wannsee conference could be implemented. As it appeared that it would not be possible for the Einsatzgruppen to clear individual areas of Jews and the people in the large ghettos of Warsaw and Lemberg by shooting them, the decision had been taken to set up two further extermination camps which would be ready by

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1 August 1942, namely Treblinka and Sobibor. The large-scale extermination programme [Vernichtungsaktion] was due to start on 1 August 1942.

About a week after Brack had come to Globocnik, Wirth and his staff returned to Belzec. The second series of experiments went on until 1 August 1942. During this period a total of five to six transports (as far as I am aware) consisting of five to seven freight cars containing thirty to forty people came to Belzec. The Jews from two of these transports were gassed in the small chamber, but then Wirth had the gas huts pulled down and built a massive new building with a much larger capacity. It was here that Jews from the rest of the transports were gassed.

During the first experiments and the first set of transports in the second series of experiments bottled gas was still used for the gassing; however, for the last transports of the second series of experiments the Jews were killed with the exhaust gases from a tank or lorry engine which was operated by Hackenholt.
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Postby Earldor on 29 Nov 2004 18:56

michael mills wrote:It is noteworthy that the above-mentioned globocnik biography by Poprzeczny advances the theory that Globocnik was in many ways a front man for Pohl and Wirth, with Wirth running the extermination of the Polish Jews unfit for labour and Pohl running the processing of the seized property coming from the camps where Wirth carried out the liquidation.


Since Michael has been reluctant to quote the relevant passage from Poprzeczny's book, I took the opportunity to look for a likely candidate for Michael's assertion. I trust that Mills will correct me if he bases his argument on a different passage.

pp. 164-165:

    "According to Michael Tregenza, Globocnik was to some extent the front man for both Wirth and Oswald Pohl, the head of SS-WVHA in Berlin, and these two men together had independent contacts with Himmler about which, in Wirth's case, unfortunately little is known.

    'It is still not generally known just how close Wirth was to Himmler and what he could get from him by simple verbal requests - no red tape. It still seems extraordinary to me that during the couple of months Wirth had a temporary office in the Julius Schreck Barracks in Lublin, headed by Höfle, the majority of the staff there had no idea what his job was. Its staff were not allowed to use the SS canteen and had their meals in local restaurants, dressed in civilian clothes.'

    [...]

    Whether he [Wirth, Earldor clarification] was a front man or not, Globocnik's involvement in this Aktion [Aktion Reinhardt, Earldor clarification] is indisputable, for we have many witnesses who have detailed this in one way or another."


The passage illustrates wonderfully how Mills manipulates the evidence to fit his agenda. I do not think that I have to spell it out for the reader. It is also obvious why Mills is so reluctant to quote his sources or do it in context.
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Postby ehlerner on 01 Dec 2004 18:00

[quote="michael mills"]Once again we have evidence that the code-name "Reinhardt" denoted the organisation which processed and recorded the property confiscated from persons defined under German law as enemies of the German Realm and people, in particular persons defined as Jews according to law.

Please cite which specific evidence MM has "once again . . . "

The confiscated property was sequestrated according to law from enemies of the German Realm who had been deported or interned in concentration camps.

How does MM or humanity ever legitimize Hitler "according to law?"


It is noteworthy that the most recent biography of Globocnik accepts that the code-name "Reinhardt" was derived from the surname of Fritz Reinhardt, the State Secretary of the Department of Finance who had ultimate responsibility for the confiscated property.

To precisely which "recent biography of Globocnik" does MM refer?


One thing we can be fairly certain of is that the Osti factories managed by Globicnik, which did use Jewish labour, were not part of "Aktion Reinhardt".

What does MM mean by "part of 'Aktion Reinhardt?'" Aktion Reinhardt was one whole glob(ocnik).

Yet Globocnik reported on them in his accounting that was prima facie about "Aktion Reinhardt".

Globocnik's "accounting was so improper that he was forced to submit an updated version to Himmler's office.


The real question is whether "Aktion Reinhardt" was a program controlled by Globocnik from Lublin, or by the WVHA from Berlin (or Oranienburg).

Poppycock! The answer is thatf the WVHA controlled Globocnik, who in turn administratively controlled the liqudation of Jews and their assets.

The United States court that tried Pohl and other WVHA commanders thought it was the latter.

Will MM kindly cite which "United States court" docket, etc.?

Since there is no documentation showing when the name "Aktion Reinhardt" was coined, or when the "Einsatz Reinhardt" in Globocnik's office was established, and why that particular name was given, no absolutely definite answer can be given.

Neither can there be given an "absolutely definite" refutation.


We do not even know who chose the name "Reinhardt", and who "owned" the designation.

If, in order to know that you know, you must know.

and if, in order not to know that you do not know, you must not know.

Then, by what logic does MM state what is known or not known?

[/quote]
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Postby michael mills on 10 Dec 2004 04:02

Here is an excerpt from the book "Topography of Terror: Gestapo, SS and Reichssicherheitshauptamt on the >> Prinz-Albrecht-Terrain<<; a Documentation", published by the Topography of Terror Foundation International Documentation and Study Centre, edited by Reinhard Rürup.

The book is patently not revisionist.

Page 136:

Text 49

Closing Account for "Operation Reinhard" of December 15, 1943 pertaining to the "Financing and Material Property Assets" from April 1, 1942 until December 15, 1943

[O.R. was the code name for a major (authorised) looting operation of Jewish property in the eastern territory]



It seems that the consensus of opinion among Leftist German historians today is that the term "Aktion Reinhardt" referred only to the sequestration of Jewish property, not to a program of deporting and/or exterminating Jews.
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Postby Sergey Romanov on 10 Dec 2004 04:29

Well, it won't be the first time the historical consensus is wrong.

And even if you're correct, it is a consensus only of a small group of historians.
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Postby Earldor on 10 Dec 2004 12:55

michael mills wrote:
Text 49

Closing Account for "Operation Reinhard" of December 15, 1943 pertaining to the "Financing and Material Property Assets" from April 1, 1942 until December 15, 1943

[O.R. was the code name for a major (authorised) looting operation of Jewish property in the eastern territory]



It seems that the consensus of opinion among Leftist German historians today is that the term "Aktion Reinhardt" referred only to the sequestration of Jewish property, not to a program of deporting and/or exterminating Jews.


I'm not a native English speaker, so would you mind explaining to me how the above passage restricts the O.R. to an economic operation.

Also, in order for you to maintain your delusion about this matter, you need to explain away the evidence pointing to the other, more widely accepted interpretation. You haven't addressed any of the distortions David mentioned earlier to my satisfaction.

Let's start with the promotion lists, which are primary documents and clearly state that the known members of Globocnik's extermination camps are said to belong to Einsatz Reinhard (what ever the spelling of Reinhard/t may be) and have taken part in Aktion Reinhard.

I'll leave some empty space for you for your reply...
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Postby red devil on 10 Dec 2004 16:51

As if anybody doubted that. This Mills guy is a joke. It is a well-known and undisputed fact that AR had to do not only with the murder of the Jews, but with the looting of their property too.


Without someone else making a point you do not have a discussion!
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Postby Sergey Romanov on 10 Dec 2004 17:00

Without someone else making a point you do not have a discussion!


So? What did you want to say by that? Why should there be a discussion about the meaning of AR?
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Postby red devil on 10 Dec 2004 17:04

I noticed that somebody was being a bit "attacked" shall we say and I was just pointing out that without opinion there is no discussion. I take no sides.
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Postby Earldor on 10 Dec 2004 17:39

red devil wrote:I noticed that somebody was being a bit "attacked" shall we say and I was just pointing out that without opinion there is no discussion. I take no sides.


Could you tell us your opinion after reading through the discussion and looking at the documentary evidence?
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Postby Sergey Romanov on 10 Dec 2004 17:41

I noticed that somebody was being a bit "attacked"


Why not? If one makes a silly point, why not point that out even in such a way?

Note that we didn't actually stay away from discussion, we proved our case with documents.
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