Hitler and the Gas Chambers

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Boby
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Hitler and the Gas Chambers

#1

Post by Boby » 03 Oct 2005, 11:38

He had idea of the existence of Gas Chambers? Any (Goebbels, Himmler, Greiser, Heydrich etc) informed him?

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David Thompson
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#2

Post by David Thompson » 03 Oct 2005, 14:40

Boby -- you asked:
He had idea of the existence of Gas Chambers? Any (Goebbels, Himmler, Greiser, Heydrich etc) informed him?
Primary evidence about Hitler
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=627237


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Helly Angel
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#3

Post by Helly Angel » 04 Oct 2005, 04:00

Just a little commentary: in the Mein Kampf, Hitler made a little reference to the detah through gas.

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Daniel Laurent
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#4

Post by Daniel Laurent » 04 Oct 2005, 14:25

Hi Bobby,

Adolf Hitler had a full knowledge of everything within the 3rd Reich.
He was the boss, and the sole one, till the end.
His two main associates were Hermann Goering and Heinrich Himmler.
Whatever legend you may have read somewhere, they both were fully faithfull to him till the end. Bring me a legend of "treason", I will explain to you what was behind, why, and so on.

So, asking if Hitler had "idea of the existence of Gas Chambers" is, mmhh, how to say politely, I don't want to agress you, well, let's say "having been influenced by the Negationist falsificators who found in your lack of basic knowledge a ground easy to pollute as they like to do".

Not only Hitler has "idea of the existence of Gas Chambers", he was the one who generated them! He was the one pushing everybody to find a "proper" way to achieve the "final solution" ordered by him. He definitely did not invented himself the Ziklon B, but he definitely was the one who open the track for all the needed research that lead to the creatrion of the gaz chambers, and the one who approved their massive use in non-Germany located Camps. He had many volunteering accomplices in this deadly mission, but he was the boss. Till the end.

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Daniel

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Hans Kloss
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#5

Post by Hans Kloss » 04 Oct 2005, 16:13

Helly Angel wrote:Just a little commentary: in the Mein Kampf, Hitler made a little reference to the detah through gas.

Best regards,
"gas chambers" or "gassing" ? -quote with relevent page number would be very much appreciated

EDITED :


If at the beginning of the war and during the war twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corruptors of the people had been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands of our very best German workers in the field, the sacrifice of millions at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary: twelve thousand scoundrels eliminated in time might have saved the lives of a million real Germans, valuable for the future
in my view these words refer to Germany's situation at the end of WWI and I would not jump to any conclusions that this constitute prof of anything.There is an anger and contempt in these words but remarks like that can be explained knowing Hitler's views of why Germany collapsed at the end of World War I, as well as his own experience of gas warfare .
Last edited by Hans Kloss on 04 Oct 2005, 16:37, edited 2 times in total.

Boby
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#6

Post by Boby » 04 Oct 2005, 16:29

Hitler is refers to "poison gas" used in WWI

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Hans Kloss
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#7

Post by Hans Kloss » 04 Oct 2005, 16:34

yeah I have just edited my last post

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Helly Angel
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#8

Post by Helly Angel » 04 Oct 2005, 17:20

Boby wrote:Hitler is refers to "poison gas" used in WWI
Yes, my reference in MK was related the gas in the WWI.

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#9

Post by michael mills » 07 Oct 2005, 05:05

In the passage quoted, Hitler was not talking about the Jewish minority in Germany as a whole, but of Marxist agitators who underminded the German war effort.

In his mind, as in those of many German nationalists, such marxist agitators were disproportionately of Jewish origin.

Hitler's meaning is that the Marxist agitators, who remained in Germany, should have been sent to the front as soldiers, along with the German working men whom the agitators claimed to represent, where they would have been exposed to all the dangers of war, including attack by poison gas.

The passage occurs in the last chapter of "Mein Kampf", called "The Right of Emergency Defence", the main theme of which is the French occupation of the Ruhr in 1923 and German reactions to it.

Here is the entire passage, which puts to bed the falsification of the meaning of the quoted excerpt. I have emphasised those portions which convey the essence of Hitler's message.

Page 679 of Manheim edition:
Any idea of real resistance to France was utter nonsense if we did not declare war against those forces which five years before had broken German resistance on the battlefields from within. Only bourgeois minds can arrive at the incredible opinion that Marxism might now have changed, and that the scoundrelly leaders of 1918, who then coldly trampled two million dead underfoot, the better to climb into the various seats of government, now in 1923 were suddenly ready to render their tribute to the national conscience. An incredible and really insane idea, the hope that the traitors of former days would suddenly turn into fighters for a German freedom. It never entered their heads. No more than a hyena abandons carrion does a Marxist abandon treason [italics in original]. And don't annoy me, if you please, with the stupidest of all arguments, that, after all, so many workers bled for Germany. German workers, yes, but then they were no longer international Marxists. If in 1914 the German working class in their innermost convictions had still consisted of Marxists, the War would have been over in three weeks. Germany would have collapsed even before the first soldier set foot across the border. No, the fact that the German people was then still fighting proved that the Marxist delusion had not yet been able to gnaw its way into the bottommost depths. But in exact proportion as, in the course of the War, the German worker and the German soldier fell back into the hands of the Marxist leaders, in exactly that proportion he was lost to the fatherland. If at the beginning of the War and during the War twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands of our very best German workers in the field, the sacrifice of millions at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary: twelve thousand scoundrels eliminated in time might have saved the lives of a million real Germans, valuable for the future. But it just happened to be in the line of bourgeois 'statesmanship' to subject millions to a bloody end on the battlefiled without batting an eyelash, but to regard ten or twelve thousand traitors, profiteers, usurers and swindlers as a sacred national treasure and openly proclaim their inviolability. We never know which is greater in this bourgeois world, the imbecility, weakness and cowardice, or their deep-dyed corruption. It is truly a class doomed by Fate, but unfortunately, however, it is dragging a whole nation with it into the abyss.
Note the constant references to "Marxists", as opposed to the single identification of them as "Hebrew".

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#10

Post by David Thompson » 07 Oct 2005, 05:39

Note the constant references to "Marxists", as opposed to the single identification of them as "Hebrew".
This hardly "puts to bed the falsification of the meaning of the quoted excerpt." It's only the "Hebrews" who are to be gassed.

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Daniel Laurent
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#11

Post by Daniel Laurent » 07 Oct 2005, 06:01


It's only the "Hebrews" who are to be gassed.
Sorry, David, I disagree with the "only".
The "Hebrews" were massively exterminated by gassing and other murdering ways, but they were not the sole.

The Tzigans, the gays, the handicapped, the undergroung fighters and the Communists, starting with the German Communists and continuing with the Societ Politruk, not to mention the Soviet POW, were also massively murdered, by gass or other ways.

The sole difference I find between the massive murder of Jews and Tzigans and the massive murder of others is that only the Jews and Tzigans were eliminated purely for racial "reasons". The others, it was for social and/or political "reasons".

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Daniel

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#12

Post by David Thompson » 07 Oct 2005, 07:00

Daniel -- You remarked:
Sorry, David, I disagree with the "only".
The "Hebrews" were massively exterminated by gassing and other murdering ways, but they were not the sole.
I was referring to the passage from Mein Kampf ("the quoted excerpt"); not to subsequent events.

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#13

Post by michael mills » 07 Oct 2005, 14:58

Sometimes I despair.

Let me draw attention once again to the two specific sentences in the passage quoted which make crystal clear the meaning of what Hitler wrote (except to those who do not want to understand).
But in exact proportion as, in the course of the War, the German worker and the German soldier fell back into the hands of the Marxist leaders, in exactly that proportion he was lost to the fatherland. If at the beginning of the War and during the War twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands of our very best German workers in the field, the sacrifice of millions at the front would not have been in vain.
As any fool can plainly see (but not apparently those who are not fools but simply wilfully blind), "these Hebrew corrupters of the people" are the Marxist leaders into whose hands the German workers and soldiers fell back in the course of the war, according to Hitler.

In identifying the Marxist leaders as "Hebrews", Hitler was showing a prejudice common among German nationalists, who believed that German Marxists were disproportionately of Jewish origin.

Hitler was not referring to the entire Jewish minority in Germany, but to Jewish Marxists.

The very figures he uses confirms that; 15,000 Marxists, if they were indeed all Jewish as Hitler seemed to believe, would represent only 3% of the 500,000-strong Jewish minority in Germany. Hitler must have had in mind the activists of Marxist parties such as the SPD, rather than the rank and file.

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#14

Post by David Thompson » 07 Oct 2005, 15:35

Michael -- You said:
As any fool can plainly see (but not apparently those who are not fools but simply wilfully blind), "these Hebrew corrupters of the people" are the Marxist leaders into whose hands the German workers and soldiers fell back in the course of the war, according to Hitler.

In identifying the Marxist leaders as "Hebrews", Hitler was showing a prejudice common among German nationalists, who believed that German Marxists were disproportionately of Jewish origin.

Hitler was not referring to the entire Jewish minority in Germany, but to Jewish Marxists.
"As any fool can plainly see (but not apparently those who are not fools but simply wilfully blind)," Hitler's expression "profiteers, usurers and swindlers" doesn't refer to Marxists:
If at the beginning of the War and during the War twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands of our very best German workers in the field, the sacrifice of millions at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary: twelve thousand scoundrels eliminated in time might have saved the lives of a million real Germans, valuable for the future. But it just happened to be in the line of bourgeois 'statesmanship' to subject millions to a bloody end on the battlefiled without batting an eyelash, but to regard ten or twelve thousand traitors, profiteers, usurers and swindlers as a sacred national treasure and openly proclaim their inviolability. We never know which is greater in this bourgeois world, the imbecility, weakness and cowardice, or their deep-dyed corruption. It is truly a class doomed by Fate, but unfortunately, however, it is dragging a whole nation with it into the abyss.

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