rare photos

[Georgien]

Source: Corbis

First photo, SS killing Polish Jews


Second Photo: son and father surrounded by Germans 1933 Germany.

[Ian Hulley]

There's nothing 'rare' about the first picture it's frequently used in Einsatzgruppen books. Possibly the only 'rare' thing about it is the Wehrmacht personnel witnessing this 'aktion'.

Also looking at the helmet in the second photo,I'd certainly date it at 1935 onwards.

Ian.

[Topspeed]

I think he means by RARE that there aren't many pics were a wehrmacht soldier is about to fire his pistol on someone by a massgrave. I have seen this pic dozens of times. Never seen the latter one.

[doch]

Has the men on the first photo ever been identified, especially the shoter?

[Ian Hulley]

I think he means by RARE that there aren't many pics were a wehrmacht soldier is about to fire his pistol on someone by a massgrave. I have seen this pic dozens of times. Never seen the latter one.

The 'soldier' with the pistol is probably SIPO, although could be SD. Note there is no breast eagle .. or for that matter SS runes (although some blanking-out seems to have gone off with this photo)

Ian.

[Larry D.]

The SOBs didn't even have the decency to use a large calibre handgun. That looks like a lady's 7.65 mm (32 calibre) automatic. A centimeter of two off dead center and the victim ends up in the trench wounded and suffering rather than dead. I'm sure the sadists did this on purpose because the Reich had plenty of rifles that would have left far less room for error due to their higher velocity and heavier round.

[gewehrdork]

The SOBs didn't even have the decency to use a large calibre handgun. That looks like a lady's 7.65 mm (32 calibre) automatic. A centimeter of two off dead center and the victim ends up in the trench wounded and suffering rather than dead. I'm sure the sadists did this on purpose because the Reich had plenty of rifles that would have left far less room for error due to their higher velocity and heavier round.

Larry ; I have to say the 32acp close up like that is a killer - lots of penetration with nothing in the way.
As for the "troops" in the background being wehrmacht , I don't think so. I see a kar98a in the background directly behind the man holding the mauser Hsc and this is indicative that these are Polizei personell.

[Ian Hulley]

"As for the "troops" in the background being wehrmacht , I don't think so. I see a kar98a in the background directly behind the man holding the mauser Hsc and this is indicative that these are Polizei personell."

Not wearing breast eagles,the litzen may be covered but there are at least 3 you can see. Looks like a motley assortment of off-duty spectators to me.

Ian.

[Georgien]

Larry,

I think you are right. Some of those in a pit probably were wounded. well after these photos its very hard to belive in humanity.

[Michael Miller]

Re: troops in background, 1st photo- I see the following (from left to right):

Member of the Reichsarbeitsdienst (RAD); Heer NCO (has breast eagle); Heer musician (note "swallow's nests" on shoulders); unknown (wearing sweater); probably Sipo/SD, colleague of the shooter; Orpo man; Heer member; another RAD member (note distinctive cap); and a possible Panzer crewman (? black uniform w/breast eagle).

Best,
~ Mike

[steve248]

I think the first photo - of the execution pit - is alleged to be an execution by
Schöngarth's z.b.V. Kommando in Lemberg area between 1941 and 1943.

[Michael Miller]

I'd guess the second photo probably taken in Poland, ca. 1939-1941. It might- just might- be an official of the Generalgouvernement at extreme right.

Best,
~ Mike

[michael mills]

The second photo almost certainly dates from about October 1939, and is located in German-occupied Poland.

At that time there was a rash of beard-cuttings inflicted on Orthodox Jewish men by enthusiastic Germans, quite often members of Schupo units sent to the occupied territory, as in this case.

After that initial frenzy, Orthodox Jews were generally allowed to keep their beards, as is shown by contemporary photographs. German personnel had lost interest in shaving them.

It should be noted that some 250 years earlier, Peter the Great had personally cut the beards off pious Russian noblemen. The underlying reason for the beard-cutting was the same in both cases; wearing a beard was a sign of religious piety for both Russian Orthodox and Jewish Orthodox, which both sets of perpetrators wanted to eliminate.

In more recent times, secular Arab regimes, for instance in Syria, have compelled the removal of beards as a sign of Muslim piety.

[history1]

@Larry D.:
On which facts, in the first picture, you can recognize that these mens are sadists?
I think it´s time for you to surcease with your anti -german polemics and interpretation´s.

@Georgien:
I ´ve the first pic in my book which report about the Babi Yar - massacre and they write that there were Waffen - SS and Ordnungspolizei involved, as leader operated mens from Gestapo, SD and criminal investigation departement.

[Andreas]

@Larry D.:
On which facts, in the first picture, you can recognize that these mens are sadists?
I think it´s time for you to surcease with your anti -german polemics and interpretation´s.

I'd say the simple fact that they hang around an execution pit witnessing mass murderers at work killing defenseless civilians justifies them to be labelled sadists. I also do not think that you need to be 'anti-German' to find some pretty damning ways of describing and interpreting pictures like this. Finally, Larry did not say that all Germans were sadists, or even imply it. He was clearly referring to the picture. So I think you should stop accusing him of something he did not do. In general, discussions on this forum are improved by not attacking others.

Regarding the shaving, I think humiliation is also part of the reason. If it was simple suppression of piety, shaving could be done at home. To force the son to cut the father's beard goes beyond that, in my opinion. I am not familiar with Syrian policies, but I have my doubts as to whether they insist on something as public and humiliating.

All the best

Andreas