Jewish Atrocities against Volga Germans

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Kim Sung
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Jewish Atrocities against Volga Germans

#1

Post by Kim Sung » 11 Feb 2006, 16:13

I've found this interesting source in a Japanese book. Did the Soviets really and deliberately choose Jews as guards for Volga Germans? And did they apply the same policy to German prisoner camps?

Even though Japanese materials tend to be extremely pro-German(for example, Japanese materials almost always depict Hitler as a hero or an unfortunate patriot and downsize the scale of the Holocaust and exaggerate the allies' atrocities), I think this assertion on Jewish atrocities against ethnic Germans is worthy of attention.

* Information Source: スタリングラード攻防戦(The Battle of Stalingrad)
ソ連政府は、ドイツ系住民のが受容されたの看守として、意図的にユダヤ系連人を登用し、彼らに管理上の権限を与えるという陰湿な方策を採用していた。

ソ連政府の宣伝を通じて、ナチスㆍドイツの大々的なユダヤ人差別と迫害を承知していたユダヤ系連人たちは、ナチスの政策とは何の関係もないめのまえのドイツ系ソ連人に対して、同胞を虐けられたことに対する復讐心を燃やして、情け容赦なく暴力を振るうことをもずからの民族的使命と考えていた。

こうした暴力の横行により、あるラーゲリでは四十二年二月の時点で千三百人いたドイツ系ソ連人が、わずか二ヶ月のうちに三百人まで減少していた。

ドイツ本国やポーランド強制収容所で、ドイツ人によるユダヤ迫害が行われていたのと同じころ、ソ連国内のラーゲリでは、それとは逆のできことが発生していたのである。
My Translation

The Soviet government deliberately placed Jews as guards to GULAGs where ethnic Germans were imprisoned, and gave the Jewish guards all administrative authority.

Influenced by Soviet propaganda, Jewish guards, who were well aware of the Nazis' discrimination and persecution against Jews, thought that violence against innocent Germans is justified as their national duty to revenge for their brethren's plight.

Due to this rampant violence, in a GULAG, 1,300 Volga Germans, who were imprisoned in February 1942, reduced to 300 in just two months.(which means 1,000 Germans were murdered by Jewish guards in just two month).

When the Holocaust was continuing at prison camps in Germany and Poland, the same phenomena were occurring in an opposite direction.

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#2

Post by David Thompson » 11 Feb 2006, 16:57

Kim Sung -- Does the article you linked to have any sources for the claims you quoted?


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#3

Post by Kim Sung » 11 Feb 2006, 17:13

The writer of this article is famous Japanese war historian Yamazaki Masahiro(山崎雅弘). He wrote he took the source for his article from 斉藤勉(Saito Tsutomu)'s スターリン秘録(Stalin's Secret Memoirs). If I could get this book, I could tell you the exact source.

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#4

Post by David Thompson » 11 Feb 2006, 18:56

Kim Sung -- You wrote:
famous Japanese war historian Yamazaki Masahiro
Isn't he actually a designer of war games for the popular market ("Stalingrad Pocket", etc.)?

As for Stalin's Secret Memoirs, I'm not aware of any such book and neither is the Google search engine. There were several serialized Japanese newspaper articles by Saito Tsutomu published under that title, but I couldn't tell whether they're supposed to be fact or fiction. To the best of my knowledge, no genuine Stalin "memoirs" have surfaced since his death. I did find this listing:
Memuary I.V. Stalina: Vospominaniia o Rossii. [I.V. Stalin's memoirs: Remembering Russia].
Author: Karpova, G.A., Siianov-Starodubtsev, M.I.
Moscow: Profizdat, 2000. 397 p. pbk. ISBN 5888080403. In Russian. $12.00
Code: 007702

Subject: 1.8 Current Political Writing and Ideology

This book is not fiction in the proper sense, but a transcript of telepathic contacts and conversations with Joseph Stalin. However it still has a value as a personal document, because it reflects modern Russian expectations of the great leader, the vision and understanding of Stalin's thoughts, intentions, and personal history. The conversations took place in 1998-99.
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:vz ... clnk&cd=11

Stalin died over fifty years ago. So far, I have a problem with the credibility of the claim.

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Kim Sung
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#5

Post by Kim Sung » 12 Feb 2006, 03:27

David Thompson wrote:Isn't he actually a designer of war games for the popular market ("Stalingrad Pocket", etc.)?

Yes, he is a simulation game designer as well as a war historian and columnist. I like his well-written articles. You can see the list of his works in this link.

David Thompson wrote:As for Stalin's Secret Memoirs, I'm not aware of any such book and neither is the Google search engine. There were several serialized Japanese newspaper articles by Saito Tsutomu published under that title, but I couldn't tell whether they're supposed to be fact or fiction. To the best of my knowledge, no genuine Stalin "memoirs" have surfaced since his death.

I know there was nothing like Stalin "memoirs". It's just a title that Saito put to his book in which he wrote about atrocities committed in Stalin's Soviet Union.

Here's the cover of his book スターリン秘録(Stalin's Secret Memoirs)
Image

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Re: Jewish Atrocities against Volga Germans

#6

Post by Despot » 12 Feb 2006, 11:18

Kim Sung wrote:I've found this interesting source in a Japanese book. Did the Soviets really and deliberately choose Jews as guards for Volga Germans? And did they apply the same policy to German prisoner camps?

Even though Japanese materials tend to be extremely pro-German(for example, Japanese materials almost always depict Hitler as a hero or an unfortunate patriot and downsize the scale of the Holocaust and exaggerate the allies' atrocities), I think this assertion on Jewish atrocities against ethnic Germans is worthy of attention.

* Information Source: スタリングラード攻防戦(The Battle of Stalingrad)


The Soviet government deliberately placed Jews as guards to GULAGs where ethnic Germans were imprisoned, and gave the Jewish guards all administrative authority.

Influenced by Soviet propaganda, Jewish guards, who were well aware of the Nazis' discrimination and persecution against Jews, thought that violence against innocent Germans is justified as their national duty to revenge for their brethren's plight.

Due to this rampant violence, in a GULAG, 1,300 Volga Germans, who were imprisoned in February 1942, reduced to 300 in just two months.(which means 1,000 Germans were murdered by Jewish guards in just two month).

When the Holocaust was continuing at prison camps in Germany and Poland, the same phenomena were occurring in an opposite direction.
[/quote]

Apparently the NKVD itself was predominantly Jewish, on a whole, without having been appointed solely for Germans.

http://www.ukar.org/shapov01.html

Also many thousands of Volga Germans were murder during the purges, both by starvation and also by execution by the NKVD. The murder was also disproportionate with relation to the population. For example in Odessa even know they only made up 8 % of the population, they nonetheless made up 28% of all those whom were murdered.

http://www.artukraine.com/famineart/openwound.htm

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Re: Jewish Atrocities against Volga Germans

#7

Post by Kim Sung » 12 Feb 2006, 11:57

Despot wrote:Apparently the NKVD itself was predominantly Jewish, on a whole, without having been appointed solely for Germans.

http://www.ukar.org/shapov01.html
From the above link
Out of every 10 senior members
of the Cheka-GPU-NKVD in Ukraine:
6 were Jewish,
2 were Russian,
1 was Ukrainian, and
1 was other.
If this is true, the brutal treatment of Volga Germans is not surprising.

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Re: Jewish Atrocities against Volga Germans

#8

Post by Despot » 12 Feb 2006, 12:11

Kim Sung wrote:
Despot wrote:Apparently the NKVD itself was predominantly Jewish, on a whole, without having been appointed solely for Germans.

http://www.ukar.org/shapov01.html
From the above link
Out of every 10 senior members
of the Cheka-GPU-NKVD in Ukraine:
6 were Jewish,
2 were Russian,
1 was Ukrainian, and
1 was other.
If this is true, the brutal treatment of Volga Germans is not surprising.
Well, much of the accused offences happened long before the war, so..... Perhaps it's the other way around.

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#9

Post by alf » 12 Feb 2006, 12:28

If this is true, the brutal treatment of Volga Germans is not surprising.
If you take a rabid anti-semtic site as proof then you will believe anything.

http://www.gulag.hu/mass_deport_1940.htm list the various peoples of 8 "nations" forcibly deported to the interior of Russia by Stalin.
There is no justification for Stalin and his paronia but there is NO proof offered by any serious research to be found online that the NKVD was comprised mainly of Jews and that Jews commanded the dozens of Gulags that they were sent to. Nor the fact the Volga Germans were singled out for any worst treatment than any other ethnic group.

The only sites to offer such information are all extremely anti semtic and far right wing, it is not proof at all, it is racist garbage.

The link that Despot posted to prove his "facts" states amongst a tirade of anti semitism.
What the Western media inculcates us to believe is that anti-Semitism is a variety of mental illness, and not a natural and understandable reaction to demonstrable provocation. The closest that this view comes to identifying a cause is to point to Jewish success, particularly Jewish economic success, and to portray anti-Semitism as grounded in an envy of such success.

However, a more thoughtful examination of the phenomenon of anti-Semitism reveals many reasons for viewing it — at least in some of its manifestations — not as an irrational and unexplainable and gratuitous hatred, but as a natural and understandable antipathy arising from an acquaintance with Jewish misbehavior. The Shapoval volume, then, provides us with one such reason why some Ukrainian anti-Semitism might exist. The reason is that Ukrainians have been aware of the Jewish domination of the experiment in government through mass murder which went under the name of "Communism," and in which experiment Ukrainians more than any other peoples have been conscripted into playing the role of guinea pigs.

Revelant to the question of the degree to which anti-Semitism may be based on rational considerations is the Ukrainian Archive discussion of Warsaw's Alphonsenpogrom of May, 1905.

Terms of a truce. Were I authorized to represent the Ukrainian position in negotiating with Jews a cessation of verbal hostilities, I might open with "If you stop fabricating lies about us, we will stop disclosing the truth about you.".
Despot wrote
The Soviet government deliberately placed Jews as guards to GULAGs where ethnic Germans were imprisoned, and gave the Jewish guards all administrative authority. Influenced by Soviet propaganda, Jewish guards, who were well aware of the Nazis' discrimination and persecution against Jews, thought that violence against innocent Germans is justified as their national duty to revenge for their brethren's plight.

Due to this rampant violence, in a GULAG, 1,300 Volga Germans, who were imprisoned in February 1942, reduced to 300 in just two months.(which means 1,000 Germans were murdered by Jewish guards in just two month).
Please provide verifable proof,

(i) name the Gulag for a start
(ii) show the ratio of jews to othe guards there
(iii) show the ratio of all deaths in this "camp" german, and others.

The claim has been made so proof must be produced.

Holocaust Deniers always scream for proof but never produce any of their own, (except what is circulated amongst themselves for their racist fantasies ie the Rudolf Report)

I doubt any real proof will be provided, a hatred of Jews seems to the only evidence being presented.

Bear in mind one thing while the Volga Germans were being deported, Nazi Germany was starting to begin its murder of 3.5 million Russian POW's. That may have influenced treatment to, not the fiction about Jews.

By the way a lot came home from exile, surviving the Gulag system. The Gulags were brutal and millions died over the 50 years of their existence but there were never any camps like the Action Reinhard Camps, Belzec, Soribor and Treblinka - pure Death Camps, people transported and put to death immediately. Or like Auschwitz where the "useless" were killed upon arrival and the remainder worked to death.

From http://www.gulag.hu/mass_deport_1940.htm
In 1948, the Supreme Soviet decreed that the 'special settlers' were definitively transferred, for ever. Stalin's death in 1953, and the subsequent execution of Beria, put an end to the collective condemnation and forced transfer of people simply because they belonged to a particular ethnic group. Under Khrushchev, the punitive restrictions imposed on the 3 million who had been transferred began to loosen. In September 1955, various restrictions on the rights of the Germans were annulled. Two months later, 5,000 Greeks expelled from Georgia in 1949 became the first group to be removed from the list of 'special settlers.'

In February 1956, five of the eight entire 'nations' (the Karachai, Kalmyks, Chechens, Ingush and Balkars) were named in Khrushchev's famous secret speech at the Communist Party Congress, in which he listed the forced transfers as one of the crimes committed by Stalin. Nevertheless, the 'special settlers' were not given the right to return to their ancestral homelands until 1957 (again, only the same five groups). The Chechens started returning almost immediately, and other groups soon followed. In most cases, their autonomous regions and republics were reinstated. However, none of the deported peoples were granted compensation for their losses, and land disputes became a common feature of some of the return movements (for example, in Chechnya).

The Crimean Tatars, Meskhetians and Volga Germans continued to be denied the right to return. However, under a special arrangement with the German government, Soviet Germans were allowed to emigrate to Germany, and given assistance to do so (travel costs, and various social benefits upon arrival). By the end of 1995, 1,376,000 had moved to Germany, where their continued arrival at the rate of some 200,000 per year has recently become a controversial political issue. A further 1.2 million are believed to be still living in CIS countries (mostly in Kazakstan, Kyrgystan and the Russian Federation).

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Re: Jewish Atrocities against Volga Germans

#10

Post by iwh » 12 Feb 2006, 12:32

I would certainly question the source. A blatently anti semitic site. No political agenda there then!

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Re: Jewish Atrocities against Volga Germans

#11

Post by Andreas » 12 Feb 2006, 12:41

Despot

You wrote:
Despot wrote:Well, much of the accused offences happened long before the war, so..... Perhaps it's the other way around.
If you can not provide sources for your argument, do not bother posting. This kind of idle speculation without any grounding in historical documentation serves no purpose, and is not allowed by the forum rules. Further posts by you like this one are liable to be removed without warning.

If you have issues with this warning, express them in a PM, and not in this thread.

I agree with iwh about the source for the claims about the ethnic make-up of the NKVD. The site is quite blatantly anti-semitic.

Thank you.

Andreas

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#12

Post by michael mills » 12 Feb 2006, 13:43

Here is a link to a site (in Russian) showing the ethnicity of NKVD senior officers between 1934 and 1941.

http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/stattab4.htm

On 1 October 1936, 39 percent of the senior officers were ethnically Jewish, as opposed to 30 percent Russian and six percent Ukrainian.

Thereafter, the proportion of senior officers of Jewish ethnicity steadily declined, falling to 21.33 percent on 1 September 1938, near the end of the Great Terror.

After the fall of Ezhov, who had a Jewish wife and was linked to the Jewish intelligentsia, there was a precipitous fall in the proportion of Jewish senior officers to only 3.9 percent on 1 July 1939 (a decline in actual numbers from 32 to six), compared with 66.7 percent Russians and 12.4 percent Ukrainians.

So the disproportionate presence of persons of Jewish ethnicity in the senior ranks of the NKVD is not entirely a myth. Until late 1938 the representation of Jews among the senior officers was about 10 times their representation in the population as a whole.

However, once Beria became the commander of the NKVD, the Jewish presence at the highest levels of the NKVD dropped to a level commensurate with relative size of the Soviet Jewish population.

With regard to the treatment of the ethnic German minority in the Soviet Union, Wendy Lower in her book "Nazi Empire-Building and the Holocaust in Ukraine" ( Chapel Hill : University of North Carolina Press, 2005) states that ethnic Germans in Ukraine were the group that had the highest death rate during the famine of 1932-33, and also were disproportionately targeted during the Great Terror of 1937-38.

Since both episodes of ethnic German suffering occurred at a time when there was a significant Jewish presence at the senior levels of the NKVD, it is a reasonable assumption that NKVD officers of Jewish extraction participated in the persecution of ethnic Germans. Whether such officers were more brutal toward ethnic Germans than officers of other ethnicities, and whether they were more brutal toward ethnic Germans than toward other victims is something that would have to be demonstrated on the basis of proper historical analysis.

One thing that is known is that the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee proposed to Stalin that the land left vacant by the ethnic Germans deported from the abolished Volga German ASSR should be used to settle the Jews fleeing eastward in the face of the German advance. That proposal was not acted on.
Last edited by michael mills on 15 Feb 2006, 01:14, edited 1 time in total.

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#13

Post by Marcus » 12 Feb 2006, 13:54

michael mills wrote:On 1 October 1939, 39 percent of the senior officers were ethnically Jewish, as opposed to 30 percent Russian and six percent Ukrainian.
I think you got that date wrong, at least judging from the site you linked to.

/Marcus

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#14

Post by michael mills » 12 Feb 2006, 14:06

A further comment:

The numbers quoted in the article by Prytulak cannot be simply dismissed, since they are taken from what appears to be a solid piece of research carried out under the auspices of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine.

Those figures show that of 183 identified persons who served in the Cheka-GPU-NKVD in Ukraine at one time or another, 93, or just over half, were of Jewish nationality.

The actual Jewish proportion may have been a bit higher, since the ethnicity of 23 of the senior officers was unknown.

Those figure unequivocally demonstrate a disproportionate Jewish presence in the organs of repression in Ukraine.

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#15

Post by michael mills » 12 Feb 2006, 14:10

On 1 October 1939, 39 percent of the senior officers were ethnically Jewish, as opposed to 30 percent Russian and six percent Ukrainian.
Actually 1 October 1936.

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