Schnellboot S 176

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JeroenV
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Schnellboot S 176

#1

Post by JeroenV » 06 May 2010, 18:30

Goodafternoon all,

This is my first post at this amazingly large website.

I recently picked up modelling again and bougt a 1/72 Revell S 100 type Schnellboot.
On the internet I did some research on the exact ship I want to replicate.
I found an interesting story about one of the last acts of violence of the Kriegsmarine in the second world war, where a flottilla of MTB's ran into a couple of Schnellboots: http://rn-coastalforcesveterans.com/page42.html and http://members.tadaust.org.au/roscoldsl/mtb494.html

The British MTB 494 collided with Schnelboot S 176 and they both sank.

What I want to do is build these two boats and put them in a showcase together. I allready found that the MTB 494 is replicable by using the Airfix 1/72 Vosper kit.

My question is this: There are many different weapon layouts possible on the Schnellboots, especially for the rear. Flak Vierling, cannon, depth charges and so on.

Is there any way to find out what layout was used on the S 176?

Greetings,

Jeroen

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Xavier
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#2

Post by Xavier » 07 May 2010, 17:33

I suggest you buy squadron signal's "Schnellboot in action", and the schifer book that covers the same theme.. lots of pictures..altought the specific details of the boat you want will be hard to come by, unless there is a picture of it
I have them both, let me check them tonight and see if your boat is pictured
Xavier
Der Autodidakt


Richard May
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#3

Post by Richard May » 07 May 2010, 18:40

Jeroen
Good luck with the models, if you search MTB 494 there is a website with pictures of someone elses model of this MTB and links to a company in Birmingham UK that make bits for this type of model.
Out of interest my Grandad was Lt. Jack May who was in charge of the three MTBs that night and was sadly killed in action, only 4 weeks before the end of the war. Would be good to see pictures when you've finished.
Regards
Richard

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PT Dockyard
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#4

Post by PT Dockyard » 08 May 2010, 15:47

You may want to post this question on the forum below:

http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index. ... 151.0.html


Dave G
The PT Dockyard
http://www.ptdockyard.com

JeroenV
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#5

Post by JeroenV » 11 May 2010, 08:42

Xavier wrote:I suggest you buy squadron signal's "Schnellboot in action", and the schifer book that covers the same theme.. lots of pictures..altought the specific details of the boat you want will be hard to come by, unless there is a picture of it
I have them both, let me check them tonight and see if your boat is pictured
Xavier
Der Autodidakt
Goodmorning Xavier,

Thank you for checking, I am looking forward to the information.
Richard May wrote:Jeroen
Good luck with the models, if you search MTB 494 there is a website with pictures of someone elses model of this MTB and links to a company in Birmingham UK that make bits for this type of model.
Out of interest my Grandad was Lt. Jack May who was in charge of the three MTBs that night and was sadly killed in action, only 4 weeks before the end of the war. Would be good to see pictures when you've finished.
Regards
Richard
Wow, that makes it come very close I can imagine... Thank you for the information! If you send me your e-mailadress to jeroenv79[at]gmail.com I can keep you updated.
PT Dockyard wrote:You may want to post this question on the forum below:

http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index. ... 151.0.html


Dave G
The PT Dockyard
http://www.ptdockyard.com
Thanks Dave, I will do just that!

JeroenV
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#6

Post by JeroenV » 19 May 2010, 13:44

Update:

With help from Xavier and other sources I found what I was looking for. The S-176 was equipped with a 3,7 cm Flak gun on the rear, which is visible (with a little imagionation :-)) on this (only known) photo of the actual S-176:

Image

I will try to keep this topic updated with work-in-progress photos of the build. It is going to take some time to finish I am afraid, since I don't have time for more than one evening every week or two weeks...

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Erich
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#7

Post by Erich » 19 May 2010, 23:22

I have some added info on Stockfleth and the crew, the story of his boats demise is not quite correct dealing with the MTB's of course the 2nd S-flot. lost another boat as well, and without looking further the MTB 5001 ? was shot to pieces by 2cm and 3.7cm from the two S-booten involved in the firefight. the S-176 did not actually sink with the splitting of the MTB 494, Stockfleth and crew blew their boot to shreds and the engines and stering controls were gone, as I said I have more info than what the two web-site suggest. A big problem is the translation of Stock's operational report and his crew plus the 2nd S-Flottille KTB. Must add in closing this part that it was S-177 that drew the immediate fire of MTB's 494 and 493 and while pre-occupied with this Stock and the crew of S-176 rammed MTB 494 which had no chance of evsion and the closing result into MTB 493 which became a total write-off .............

the S-176 foto is not correct as this shows one with-out the armored cupola which the S-176 had from the moment it was handed over to the C.O. and the 2nd S-Flottille, the 3.7cm would be shielded as well as the mid positioned 2cm Flakzwilling, also the unit would show the clubs wappen in some form on the side of the Boot as the S-210 which took part on this fateful April 45 evening operation.

good luck and my best to Richard and his grandfathers service and one last item this was not the lat op that the 2nd S-Flot. performed

Torpedos los !

E ~

JeroenV
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#8

Post by JeroenV » 20 May 2010, 09:05

Hello Erich, first of all: thank you for your information.

When I received the photo in the post above I did not notice that this one has not got the armored Kalotte, I was to preoccupied with the rear gun :-)
You are right that the photo can not be of the S-176. Too bad!

Can you also confirm Erich that the rear gun on the S-176 was a 3.7 cm one?

I found some pictures of the British MTB's in question:

The MTB 494 in better days:

Image

The MTB 493 after the events, as Erich said: a write-off:

Image

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Erich
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#9

Post by Erich » 20 May 2010, 20:41

it's amazing to me that they even got MTB 494 back at all. do not think the absolute truth will ever be known with most engagements taking place at night, a few flares shot up and cannon tracers flying in the air, Boats on fire and exploding.

Jeroen the S-176 was a class S-100 Boot so it had the armored protected bridge, forward 2cm cannon and mid-ship twin 2cm plus rearward 3.7cm this was standard along with two single mg 34's or 81's placed on either side of the bridge for close-in self protection.

E ~

JeroenV
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#10

Post by JeroenV » 21 May 2010, 11:12

Hi Erich, a small correction: The MTB 494 did not return, it sank at the spot it was rammed.
It was the MTB 493 that, despite being very heavilly damaged after ramming the overturned hull of the MTB 494, made it's way back to port where the above photo was taken.

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Erich
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#11

Post by Erich » 21 May 2010, 16:12

yes correct

Jeroen how close are you to Den Helder ? have wondered if there is anything left of the protective areas for the 2nd S-flottille S-Boats still there ? might be worth a look or inquire.

Erich

Torpedo
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#12

Post by Torpedo » 24 May 2010, 14:04

Erich wrote:Jeroen the S-176 was a class S-100 Boot so it had the armored protected bridge, forward 2cm cannon and mid-ship twin 2cm plus rearward 3.7cm this was standard along with two single mg 34's or 81's placed on either side of the bridge for close-in self protection.
Erich
Hello Erik,

Sorry if I come here as an intruder on this thread, but I'd like to bring a correction that could help our friend Joeren!
The small ammo racks fitting on both sides of the open bridge were designed to receive MG15s double drum magazines chosen for their firing rate. I myself possess several copyrighted pics got from my researches at the French military archives that were taken as war trophies to Germans by the end of WWII showing MG15 machine guns most of the time hanging inside the S-boat armored bridges. I noticed the crew seemed to like this kind of gun on small size surface boats since Räumboote flotillas photos also demonstrate they were equipped with it too.
Hope it helped.

Here's an interesting link of an S-Boot which was destroyed during a bombing raid on the S-Boot bunkers at IJmuiden:
http://www.beeldbankwo2.nl/result.jsp
(Zoek, then type in Schnellboot)

Also, there are of few diagrams designed to explain how to correctly reproduce some of the Schnellboot sections on my link, if this can help a few E-boat lovers!:
http://rpalmacci.free.fr

Cheers

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Erich
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#13

Post by Erich » 24 May 2010, 18:30

Greetings Robert and thanks for the link(s)

yes the Mg 15 was also used if available but be aware for self protection anything and everything was literally grabbed

yes have seen the lengthy thread you participate on the S-204/S-205 which is fantastic and what was on-board when the 2 S-Boots surrendered. the 5th S-Flot. Boots used a variety of close-in weapons during the ops in the Ost as well as carrying off civilians and military personell from Kurland they were all in close action.

keep at the good work for your site and the other one building one of the greatest Boots ever created

E ~

JeroenV
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#14

Post by JeroenV » 25 May 2010, 10:14

Robert, thank you for the links, I believe they will be of great help!

Erich, I do not live very close to Den Helder, it is a 2 hour drive from where I live.
But, and this is a great coincidence, I have planned a weekend with my girlfriend on the island of Texel end July. To get to Texel you have to take the ferry at Den Helder.
I will try to contact a Den Helder historical society to get information about any surviving remains of Schnellboot bunkers. If there are any accessible remains I will take some photographs of them for you.

I will keep you updated!

With kind regards,

Jeroen

Torpedo
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Re: Schnellboot S-176

#15

Post by Torpedo » 25 May 2010, 16:11

Thanks Jeroen & Erich. Always a pleasure if I can be of some help.

I've to say that starting to work on Italeri's (or Revell's 1:72 scale model) E-boat is like crossing the desert with Moses! Unless, of course you decide not to reproduce a correct replica of this fabulous wartime boat.

About the MG15, a German report wrote that while Dunkirk was surrounded by the allies, flotillas stationing in the Netherlands made a sortie to grab anything that could be of some use to them, living behind their MG15 to the trapped fighting land forces. I agree with you Erich, a boat can differ quite a lot from another. It's simply obvious when looking at S-204 and S-205. And yet only a week separates them from their respective delivery!
But to what concerns light weaponry, I tend to believe they were of standard issues. What makes me think the crew liked this 'brand' (lol), is that if you well look at the early Schnellboote, before coming to the 2cm gun, it's nothing but an MG15 that was fitted at bow...But I might be wrong!

Cheers,
Robert

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