Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Kriegsmarine except those dealing with the U-Boat forces.
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hucks216
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Re: Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?

#31

Post by hucks216 » 20 Mar 2016, 10:39

The upper 2 images are the Graf Zeppelin. I get the feeling the other two are of another ship, possibly the Italian one mentioned.

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Terry Duncan
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Re: Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?

#32

Post by Terry Duncan » 27 Mar 2016, 02:50

The last two images are of the RM Sparviero. It was a merchant ship conversion, hence the large number of portholes visible, and she never got much beyond removing the superstructure. There is a nice picture of how she was intended to look after conversion on the World Of Warships site along with a line drawing from The Blueprints site;

http://s1184.photobucket.com/user/ussr1 ... o.jpg.html

http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprint ... rier-2.gif


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Re: Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?

#33

Post by Luftflotte2 » 31 Mar 2016, 21:07

Travemünde 1941.
source: ebay.de
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Lübeck Travemünde 1941e.jpg
Lübeck Travemünde 1941d.jpg
Lübeck Travemünde 1941c.jpg
Lübeck Travemünde 1941a.jpg

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Re: Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?

#34

Post by markh » 23 Apr 2016, 17:36

Paul Lakowski wrote:Pretty sure it was sunk to find out just how much punishment a modern carrier could take and what the best type of weapons to employ against Western Post War Carriers.

.
[/quote]


From what I have read, the Russians were fearful of the might of the US aircraft carrier fleet if the Cold War came to all out war. Therefore, they used the Graf Zeppelin as target practice to find the best way to tackle the aircraft carrier threat.

With regards to the Graf Zeppelin, has it been documented if the vessel would have been a capable ship had it been completed? And would the Germans have had the capabilities to man the ship in a combat manner? I know that they had the aircraft to use on it, the ME109's that they had based on Heligoland were of a design meant to be used on the aircraft carrier. Surely it would have taken some years to train a ships crew to operate a carrier to combat levels? I can not how this would have ever really worked for the Germans, they were years behind the rest of the carrier using nations. Had they had this ship before war broke out, then perhaps it would have proved a real threat.

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markh
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Re: Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?

#35

Post by markh » 23 Apr 2016, 17:50

A couple more photos of the carrier. It was at a fairly advanced state of construction. Would have been interesting to have seen it completed, just to see if it were a workable design.
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Bundesarchiv_RM_25_Bild-62,_Flugzeugträger_%22Graf_Zeppelin%22,_Bau.jpg
Graf Zeppelin, Kiel, 1940.
Bundesarchiv_Bild_134-B0676,_Flugzeugträger_%22Graf_Zeppelin%22.jpg
Graf Zeppelin, Stettin, 1941.

Paul Lakowski
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Re: Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?

#36

Post by Paul Lakowski » 26 Apr 2016, 05:22

markh wrote:
Paul Lakowski wrote:Pretty sure it was sunk to find out just how much punishment a modern carrier could take and what the best type of weapons to employ against Western Post War Carriers.

.


From what I have read, the Russians were fearful of the might of the US aircraft carrier fleet if the Cold War came to all out war. Therefore, they used the Graf Zeppelin as target practice to find the best way to tackle the aircraft carrier threat.

With regards to the Graf Zeppelin, has it been documented if the vessel would have been a capable ship had it been completed? And would the Germans have had the capabilities to man the ship in a combat manner? I know that they had the aircraft to use on it, the ME109's that they had based on Heligoland were of a design meant to be used on the aircraft carrier. Surely it would have taken some years to train a ships crew to operate a carrier to combat levels? I can not how this would have ever really worked for the Germans, they were years behind the rest of the carrier using nations. Had they had this ship before war broke out, then perhaps it would have proved a real threat.
There were plans to build an aircraft carrier in 1928 based on the RN HMS glorious style carrier , but the debates in parliament dragged out to 1932 before the naval plan was signed into Law. Of course Hitler got in power and put all these plans on the back burner. Hitler was against a large navy since few in the General staff trusted the navy and Hitler worried they would threaten to destabilise his efforts to convince the British to stay out of European affairs... After this rebuff Raeder salvaged what little he could of the naval plan 1932, which had no place for Carriers.

Even a basic fast diesel merchant ship -like many used as HSK during the war- could have been modified as a training carrier by the mid 1930s to test and try concepts, leading to better understanding and desire to build such a ship.

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tigre
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Re: Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?

#37

Post by tigre » 02 Nov 2017, 06:06

Hello to all :D; more.................................

Graf Zeppelin, the beginning.

Source: http://www.spiegel.de/einestages/flugze ... 51329.html

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Attachments
image059.jpg
Ship under construction: the aircraft carrier "A", as it was initially called the "Graf Zeppelin", during the initial phase
of construction, photo taken on December 28, 1936 at the shipyard in Kiel. The plans for the main project were
developed shortly after Hitler came to power, the order was granted to the shipyard in November 1935
image059.jpg (37.58 KiB) Viewed 5405 times
image060.jpg
Construction of the keel: Here is the aircraft carrier on March 22, 1937 seen from aft.
The keel and the frame of the ship are being built
image060.jpg (54.11 KiB) Viewed 5405 times
Last edited by tigre on 02 Nov 2017, 22:34, edited 1 time in total.

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genstab
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Re: Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?

#38

Post by genstab » 02 Nov 2017, 19:02

She was actually launched- and I have seen a photo of her being towed by the Russians. It's somewhere in the internet.
Google "Graf Zeppelin" and select aircraft carrier- there are a lot of photos. One or two with flags all over her shows her after launching .
It was of course Göring who ruined her completion- he refused to provide any planes for her and Hitler didn't overrule him. Admiral Raeder didn't have the influence Göring did in the earlier part of the war- he and HItler went back a long ways.

Best,
Bill in Cleve3land

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tigre
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Re: Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?

#39

Post by tigre » 10 Dec 2022, 22:29

Hello to all :D; after a while, more.................................

Graf Zeppelin, Stapellauf (launching).

Source: https://www.spiegel.de/geschichte/flugz ... 51329.html

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Feliz Navidad - Feliz Natal - Frohe Weihnachten - Joyeux Noël - Merry Christmas - Wesołych Świąt! :wink:
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image010.jpg (25.65 KiB) Viewed 4440 times

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tigre
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Re: Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?

#40

Post by tigre » 12 Oct 2023, 20:23

Hello to all :D; after a while, more.................................

Graf Zeppelin, Stapellauf (launching).

Source: https://picclick.de/Altes-Foto-Kieler-H ... id=1&pid=1
https://picclick.de/Altes-Foto-Kieler-H ... id=1&pid=1

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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image425.jpg
image425.jpg (30.05 KiB) Viewed 2657 times

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BayonetOnAZero
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Re:

#41

Post by BayonetOnAZero » 26 Oct 2023, 20:12

Richard Murphy wrote:
27 Aug 2002, 21:37
The question is: Why?
What was the point in Germany having an aircraft carrier if not just purely for reasons of prestige? They had no overseas provinces to protect (Such as had the UK, US and Japan. It should be noted that France had overseas colonies, but hadn't got far in developing a fleet air arm.), and, in the event of war, little use for a carrier, even in relation to attacks on the UK.
There was no sensible reason for her very expensive (In terms of all resources.) development.

Regards from the Park,

Rich
You could have a mobile and fortified airfield to launch aircraft from :I
What has happened has happened, history is history. We must accept and embrace the things that we are passionate about and the atrocities that had been committed. Denying history is an atrocity in itself.

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