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German WW2 war dead memorials

Discussions on museums, memorials, travel reports etc dealing with the World Wars.

Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Adam Carr on 06 Apr 2008 16:45

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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby ghostsoldier on 06 Apr 2008 21:33

With all due respect Adam, I fail to see where ANY destruction to a war memorial, whether the people being memorialised are considered good or bad, can be thought of as "justified"...vandalism is a crime, no matter who does it, and should not be condoned. :)

Nice photos, by the way...

Rob
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Adam Carr on 07 Apr 2008 08:58

The SS was a criminal organisation, guilty of the most monstrous criminal acts including the organisation and implementation of the greatest genocide in modern times. Its members do not merit commemoration.
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby ghostsoldier on 07 Apr 2008 20:08

Adam Carr wrote:The SS was a criminal organisation, guilty of the most monstrous criminal acts including the organisation and implementation of the greatest genocide in modern times. Its members do not merit commemoration.


True....and I'm not here to defend the SS. The treatment of the American Indian (or the American Negro) by my ancestors doesn't warrant (or justifies) me going to Washington (or any small town courtyard in the vestige of the post-Confederate South) and pulling down the monument erected to the "patriots" of the country. There is evil in any, and every, society...but vandalism can never be justified.
Rob
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby friend_of_Obersalzberg on 07 Apr 2008 22:32

Adam Carr wrote:The SS was a criminal organisation, guilty of the most monstrous criminal acts including the organisation and implementation of the greatest genocide in modern times. Its members do not merit commemoration.


It´s really hard, reading such sentences and opinions, to stay in a good mental state.
Adam, you are writing here about my ancestors and the only thing you know about, is the 60 years old Nürnberger decree???!! I can´t write, what I´m really thinking about your "knowing"....
I know -based on your posts in the whole forum- , you never change your opinion, you know, what´s true and what´s false...but let me try for the last time: Read the book "Steel Inferno - I SS Panzer Corps in Normandy" from Michael Reynolds (C) 1997 Spellmount, The Old Rectory, Staplehurst, Kent TN12 0AZ. Maybe you will find some new informations from a really expert and maybe the next time you will cogitate before writing affronts to hundred thousand brave soldiers, who fight and died in the same way as their enemies.

For all, who are really interested in informations, I will show you 4 photos. You will remark some differences in the inscriptives, so everybody with a open mind can recognize the changes in the appreciatians about our warvictims in the last 200 years.This 3 marker are on one column in a cemetery in Bavaria:

First photo:
Inscription: "
In this beech grove far away from home, 2000 warriors found their last resting place anno 1800. They died after the battle of Hohenlinden here in the hospital Baumburg. For our brave brothers this humble memorial was given by some patriots 1867." RIP (no, this means not "Rest in Peace", it is Requiescat In Pace, Latein)
About the battle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ ... nden_(1800)

1.jpg





"
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby friend_of_Obersalzberg on 07 Apr 2008 22:45

The second shows a memorial for the 1870/71 war:

Inscrition: "Commemorate to the heroes of the commune Altenmarkt:
:::NAMES"
RIP"

12.jpg



The third photos for the soldiers of the WW I:

"To the glory and commemorate of the hereos, who died for the Fatherland in the World War 1914/18. The Veteran Club Altenmarkt 1926"

1418.jpg
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby friend_of_Obersalzberg on 07 Apr 2008 22:58

And now the last marker...for the WW 2 soldier:

Inscription: "To commemorate all, which lost their life 1939-1945"

3945.jpg


No "our", no "soldier", no "Hereos", no "Warriors", no "glory".......

Greetings

Ralf
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Adam Carr on 08 Apr 2008 09:58

Friend of Obersalzberg, I know a lot more about the SS than the Nuremberg Decree, thanks very much. My statement that it was a criminal organisation is not based on that decree (correct though it was), but on 30 years reading German and Holocaust history and on personal acquaintance with a number of survivors of the SS's criminality. If you had ancestors in the SS, I don't blame you for that, but that doesn't alter the historical facts. I have already said that I am not opposed to the commemoration of German war dead, individually or collectively. Although members of the Wehmacht committed many crimes, it was not of itself a criminal organisation. The SS was an arm of the Nazi Party, created to implement the Nazi policy of genocide. Since it was created for a criminal purpose, it must be described as a criminal organisation. It is true that not every member of the SS, and particularly of the Waffen SS, was personally involved in the commission of these crimes. I am not opposed to appropriately modest grave markers for individual SS men. I am opposed to any collective memorialistion of SS members. Such memorials are an insult to the millions of victims of Nazi crimes, and also an insult to the Germans who gave their lives opposing the Nazi state. They are also an insult to modern, democratic Germany, a country which I greatly admire for its successful rehabilitation from the legacy of the Nazi criminality. I support those Germans who seek to remove or destroy such memorials.
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Andreas on 08 Apr 2008 10:35

No more discussion on the SS, or this thread is going to be closed. Final warning, and I don't care who started it.

So far we have one memorial destroyed by leftists then, not "many".

Nice pictures Adam.

The monument I refer to is this one, the very controversial 3rd Reich monument to Infantry Regiment 76 from Hamburg, with the inscription "Germany must live, even if we must die":

Image

http://rhino1515.blogspot.com/2006/03/7 ... mmtor.html

All the best

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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby ghostsoldier on 08 Apr 2008 20:27

friend_of_Obersalzberg wrote:And now the last marker...for the WW 2 soldier:

Inscription: "To commemorate all, which lost their life 1939-1945"


No "our", no "soldier", no "Hereos", no "Warriors", no "glory".......



Thanks Ralf. :) This picture pretty much sums up what I perceived Germany's "official" standing on erecting monuments to the dead of World War 2 to be...no fuss, no muss, no questions asked.
Rob
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Adam Carr on 08 Apr 2008 22:29

Bother - now I'll have to go back to Hamburg just to photograph that :x
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Auseklis on 09 Apr 2008 01:14

Here's another one vandalized back in the 80s in my present hometown Bochum.
Before the assault a statue of 2 soldiers (Imperial and Wehrmacht) holding a flag was on top...

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegerden ... ark_Bochum
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Adam Carr on 27 Apr 2008 14:46

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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby ghostsoldier on 28 Apr 2008 19:16

Hey Adam...the links don't work for me....goes to a dead end (no pun intended).... :?
Rob
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Fallschirmjäger on 29 Apr 2008 05:45

Are there any memorials to WW2 german dead in the rhineland area of germany,lik where operations veritable and varisty,battle of the reichswald etc..Like being in germany maybe more of a chance,and for the reichswald forest,are there any german WW2 cemetries there,like herd of allied ones,or are the germans killed in these battles buried elsewhere in the area,thanks.
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