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The Axis nations should be allowed to honor their war dead

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The Axis nations should be allowed to honor their war dead

Postby Tannenburg on 28 Jun 2009 20:56

[Split from "German WW2 war dead memorials"]


The German and Baltic nations should be allowed to honor their war dead as they see fit. Every country's combatants commited atrocities, and Stalin killed more people than Hitler and the Third Reich. The Soviet soldiers of occupied Eastern-Europe post WWII showed no honor and acted as depraved animals might, just as the German people feared. The U.S. Army is not innocent, I have first hand accounts of civilian massacres in Germany by U.S. troops. If we honor the war dead of the victors who commited atrocities of their own, what right does anyone have to question the right of Germany and her former client states to honor theirs? NONE. NO DEBATE.
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Tannenburg on 28 Jun 2009 21:01

Beautiful memorials to the valiant fighting men of Germany. The fallen of both wars, from both sides deserve the same honors, they were fighting for the survival of their nations.
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Adam Carr on 29 Jun 2009 02:28

There is plenty of "debate" as you know full well. Most of the opposition to memorialising the German armed forces of World War II comes from Germans, not from outsiders.
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Hülse on 09 Mar 2010 04:53

It's very strange that germans permit a huge monument in the heart of Berlin dedicated to Soviet soldiers and don't have nothing similar to their own soldiers fallen... As I said before, right or wrong they believe that they are fighting for the good of their motherland.

Can anyone explain that?
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Adam Carr on 09 Mar 2010 10:40

Because the Germans were fighting for a criminal regime and in a criminal war of aggression which they deserved to lose. The Soviets, although ruled by an equally criminal regime, were fighting in a just cause, the defence of their homeland.
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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby Crazy_Ivan on 09 Mar 2010 11:12

Adam, I dont even know where to begin with that comment, it is a shocker IMO to be sure. My grand-father fought for that criminal regime in a war he had zero interest in fighting in and for a man who by his own words was "An excellent orator but thoroughly full of b.s." I am sorry but it appears you know zilch about the reasons these men fought or the consequences if they refused. They deserve to be honoured the same as any other nation.
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Re: The Axis nations should be allowed to honor their war dead

Postby Adam Carr on 18 Mar 2010 11:58

I know a great deal about why these men fought for Germany, thanks very much. I'm also not a newcomer to the debate about war commemoration in Germany. See my thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=142680&start=0&hilit=culture+commemoration
I have every sympathy for the individual German soldier and I have no objection to their sacrifices being commemorated. But I oppose their being honoured, which is a different thing. The German war of aggression was a war without honour, and the German Army lost its honour by the way it conducted that war in the service of a criminal regime.
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Re: The Axis nations should be allowed to honor their war dead

Postby Crazy_Ivan on 18 Mar 2010 15:09

Sorry, but IMO you did not make that clear, you stated an opposition as to why there was no monument to fallen german soldiers in berlin, now you are saying you don't mind them being commemorated. Is a monument not commerating their sacrifice? I mean no one is saying there should be military marches with bands and banners, but a monument in Berlin, where is the harm?
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Re: The Axis nations should be allowed to honor their war dead

Postby Adam Carr on 18 Mar 2010 15:23

You asked why there was no monument in Berlin. I asked that myself when I was there, and the answer is that there's no consensus among the Germans about whether they want one. Berlin's a very left-wing town, remember. Many Germans share the view I expressed above - that soldiers fighting for a criminal regime in a war of aggression and genocide should not be honoured.

If you ask whether I think there should be a memorial, my answer is that I wouldn't object to one if the Germans themselves decided to build one, provided it commemorates dead soldiers but does not honour the German Army. But I'm not German so it doesn't really matter what I think.
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Re: The Axis nations should be allowed to honor their war dead

Postby Delta Tank on 18 Mar 2010 17:47

Tannenburg,

Tannenburg wrote: The U.S. Army is not innocent, I have first hand accounts of civilian massacres in Germany by U.S. troops. If we honor the war dead of the victors who commited atrocities of their own, what right does anyone have to question the right of Germany and her former client states to honor theirs? NONE. NO DEBATE.


Source please. Name units, commanders, and dates if possible.

I lived in Germany for almost 6 years and all the little towns seem to have basically the same monument. It was a little monument with the names of the soldiers killed in World War I on one side, then two sides devoted to the soldiers killed in World War II and sometimes one side would list the names of the dead of the Franco Prussian War. I thought that these little monuments were appropriate, and dignified.

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Re: German WW2 war dead memorials

Postby ChristopherPerrien on 19 Mar 2010 00:21

Hülse wrote:It's very strange that germans permit a huge monument in the heart of Berlin dedicated to Soviet soldiers and don't have nothing similar to their own soldiers fallen... As I said before, right or wrong they believe that they are fighting for the good of their motherland.

Can anyone explain that?

There used to be this wall. :idea:

If its any consolation ,long ago (1987 :roll: ) I was told by a mason who helped build the Tomb of the Soviet Hero in "East Berlin", that a German soldier was buried/is interred there.
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Re: The Axis nations should be allowed to honor their war dead

Postby Okyzm on 25 Mar 2010 20:58

The Soviet soldiers despite the often criminal behaviour of some from their ranks, stopped the genocide made by Germany in WW2. Thus they deserve reckognition.
There is little support building anything that would honour those who fought to exterminate whole nations in a racist genocidal crusade.
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Re: The Axis nations should be allowed to honor their war dead

Postby Delta Tank on 25 Mar 2010 22:19

Tannenburg,

Tannenburg wrote: The U.S. Army is not innocent, I have first hand accounts of civilian massacres in Germany by U.S. troops. If we honor the war dead of the victors who commited atrocities of their own, what right does anyone have to question the right of Germany and her former client states to honor theirs? NONE. NO DEBATE.



Delta tank wrote: Source please. Name units, commanders, and dates if possible.


Do you have a source? I have not read every book on World War II but I never came across anything like you imply in your post above, or do you have an agenda?

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Re: The Axis nations should be allowed to honor their war dead

Postby Crazy_Ivan on 26 Mar 2010 12:02

Okyzm wrote:The Soviet soldiers despite the often criminal behaviour of some from their ranks, stopped the genocide made by Germany in WW2. Thus they deserve reckognition.
There is little support building anything that would honour those who fought to exterminate whole nations in a racist genocidal crusade.



This explosion of nationalist rhetoric that you throw around every thread is loathesome. Again I will ask because you never answered this the last time, how many nations did Germany exterminate?
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Re: The Axis nations should be allowed to honor their war dead

Postby Okyzm on 26 Mar 2010 12:09

Again I will ask because you never answered this the last time, how many nations did Germany exterminate?

Thankfully the Allies stopped German attempt of exterminationg whole nations, and German efforts against Jews, Poles, , Roma were futile(of course each nations had its own priority in German plans for genocide)
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