Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
In Helsinki's Lönnrotin Park, which used to be the cemetery of the Vanha Kirkko (Old Church), dating from 1826, there are two interesting memorials. They are from the period of the Finnish civil war of 1918, when German forces intervened on the side of the Finnish Whites to help them defeat the Soviet-backed Reds. The first is a memorial to the German dead. The inscription reads: "To the German heroes who fell in the struggle for Helsinki, April 1918, is erected this monument by a grateful city."
The second is a memorial to the Finns who died fighting for the White forces. It takes the form of a stone block with bas-relief scenes from Greek mythology. There is an inscription in Finnish and Swedish, but Google Translate doesn't make much sense of it in either language. Strikingly, at the foot of the list of Finnish dead on one side, there is a swastika symbol superimposed on an Iron Cross-style cross. Now I'm aware of course that the swastika didn't have the meaning in 1918 that it later came to acquire, but it is surprising that it has survived all this time on a public memorial in western European city.
Not far away, near the Finnish Parliament building but not actually in its precincts, is a large equestrian statue of Marshal Mannerheim, who commanded the White forces in the Civil War and later commanded the Finnish Army in the wars of 1939-40 and 1941-44 against the Soviet Union. Mannerheim is revered by many Finns, but the government keeps its distance from his memory, since he was after all the commander of an army which fought as an ally of Nazi Germany. I'm wondering: is the only public memorial in Europe to a commander who fought as a German ally in World War II?
The second is a memorial to the Finns who died fighting for the White forces. It takes the form of a stone block with bas-relief scenes from Greek mythology. There is an inscription in Finnish and Swedish, but Google Translate doesn't make much sense of it in either language. Strikingly, at the foot of the list of Finnish dead on one side, there is a swastika symbol superimposed on an Iron Cross-style cross. Now I'm aware of course that the swastika didn't have the meaning in 1918 that it later came to acquire, but it is surprising that it has survived all this time on a public memorial in western European city.
Not far away, near the Finnish Parliament building but not actually in its precincts, is a large equestrian statue of Marshal Mannerheim, who commanded the White forces in the Civil War and later commanded the Finnish Army in the wars of 1939-40 and 1941-44 against the Soviet Union. Mannerheim is revered by many Finns, but the government keeps its distance from his memory, since he was after all the commander of an army which fought as an ally of Nazi Germany. I'm wondering: is the only public memorial in Europe to a commander who fought as a German ally in World War II?
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Re: Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... h-swastikaThe swastika is an ancient Finnish symbol (dating back to the Iron Age or further) and therefore commonly used in arts and crafts of the period of nationalism - 19th century to the early 20th century. Because the idea of Finland as an independent nation was so new, the need for powerful symbols that reinforced this idea was even greater. The swastika was dynamic, exotic and folkloristic - perfect for art with a message in the late 19th century. Artists who wanted to evoke a "national consciousness" incorporated the symbol in their paintings.
Traditional decorative patterns in Carelian handiwork sometimes include the swastika. Swastika is hakaristi ("hookcross") or vääräpää ("crooked head") in Finnish.
The swastika of the Finnish Defence Forces has its own story. The blue FAF swastika was originally the symbol of luck of the family of Count von Rosen, who donated to the Finnish "White Army" its first plane,a Morane-Saulnier L fighter aircraft, in 1918 during the Civil War. It was adopted as the official national marking of the Finnish Air Forces and later on, the Army. The Finnish women's voluntary defence organization, the Lotta Svärd, also used a swastika as its symbol and it also still appears in many Finnish medals and decorations, in a visually understated manner.
Larry
- John Hilly
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Re: Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
This is not swastika, but the Cross of Freedom desingned by a famous artist August Gallen-Kallela already in 1919, IIRC.Adam Carr wrote:The swastika on the Finnish Whites' memorial.
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"
Re: Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
It is not surprising at all, since the Finnish "swastika" has nothing to do with Nazi-Germany, which everybody knows perfectly well in Finland. Also the "swastika" in the Cross of Liberty (the order founded in 1918) in that statue does not even look the same.Adam Carr wrote:...
The second is a memorial to the Finns who died fighting for the White forces. It takes the form of a stone block with bas-relief scenes from Greek mythology. There is an inscription in Finnish and Swedish, but Google Translate doesn't make much sense of it in either language. Strikingly, at the foot of the list of Finnish dead on one side, there is a swastika symbol superimposed on an Iron Cross-style cross. Now I'm aware of course that the swastika didn't have the meaning in 1918 that it later came to acquire, but it is surprising that it has survived all this time on a public memorial in western European city.
Finnish Government does not keep it's distance from Marshall Mannerheim, who is considered in Finland to be the greatest Finn of all times. Finnish army nor Finland was never technically an "ally" with Nazi-Germany, like e.g. the USSR 1939-41, but a co-belligerent, since they both had the same enemy.Adam Carr wrote:Not far away, near the Finnish Parliament building but not actually in its precincts, is a large equestrian statue of Marshal Mannerheim, who commanded the White forces in the Civil War and later commanded the Finnish Army in the wars of 1939-40 and 1941-44 against the Soviet Union. Mannerheim is revered by many Finns, but the government keeps its distance from his memory, since he was after all the commander of an army which fought as an ally of Nazi Germany. I'm wondering: is the only public memorial in Europe to a commander who fought as a German ally in World War II?
There are several memorials of Mannerheim in Finland. There are also countless other memorials with Finnish "swastikas". Also some modern Finnish Air Force flags and badges use the "swastika".
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Re: Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
...and who got the second place?Karelia wrote:Finnish Government does not keep it's distance from Marshall Mannerheim, who is considered in Finland to be the greatest Finn of all times.
http://yle.fi/vintti/yle.fi/suuretsuoma ... index.html
There also exists a state funded memorial of him:
http://www.taidemuseo.fi/english/veisto ... tby=statue
...one of the ugliest I've seen.
Yep.Karelia wrote:There are several memorials of Mannerheim in Finland. There are also countless other memorials with Finnish "swastikas". Also some modern Finnish Air Force flags and badges use the "swastika".
Some to mention:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1810425
http://www.1uptravel.com/flag/flags/fi-pres.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utti_Jaeger_Regiment
Regards, Juha
Re: Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
Well they should stop using it. That photo of the marchers with the flag is shocking. Whatever its origins in Finland may be, it's now the symbol of Nazism and should not be used.
Re: Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
Well - then e.g. the Americans should also stop using stars in their flags, planes and so on. Whatever it's origins might be, it's now the symbol of communism and should not be used. Also AFAIK the infamous "hammer and sicle" -symbol is not forbidden anywhere, which seems very odd to me, since it is the well-known symbol of an at least as bloody/murderous regime/ideology than the Nazis'(/m).Adam Carr wrote:Well they should stop using it. That photo of the marchers with the flag is shocking. Whatever its origins in Finland may be, it's now the symbol of Nazism and should not be used.
As have already been explained, the Finnish "hakaristi" ("swastika") has a totally different history and symbolism than the Nazi one. It is also normally blue and lies on it's side. The images shown in e.g. in the crosses of the Order of the Liberty look very different. Actually I wish they changed the original 1918 Finnish blue "hakaristi" back to the planes as well, since it looks better than the boring roundel and have a long Finnish history. Unfortunately don't think it will happen, since hypocrisy seems to be well alive and kicking...
Re: Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
1. Your "star"analogy is very feeble. You "hammer and sickle" analogy is also weak. I don't see the armed forces of any democratic country parading around with hammer and sickle flags.
2. The symbol on the Air Force banner is not a "cross of freedom," it is a swastika of the same design as the one used by the Nazi Party and the Third Reich.
3. I don't care what the history of the symbol in Finland is. The swastika is the symbol of Nazism and the Nazi state, and democratic states should not use it.
2. The symbol on the Air Force banner is not a "cross of freedom," it is a swastika of the same design as the one used by the Nazi Party and the Third Reich.
3. I don't care what the history of the symbol in Finland is. The swastika is the symbol of Nazism and the Nazi state, and democratic states should not use it.
- Juha Tompuri
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Re: Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
Should we hammer the statue crosses too?
Anyway, here is a bit similar lounge thread from the past:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6536&hilit
Regards, Juha
Anyway, here is a bit similar lounge thread from the past:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6536&hilit
Regards, Juha
Re: Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
The crosses such as the one I originally posted about are tolerable - I didn't say it should be removed. Outright Nazi-style swastikas such as the one on the Air Force flag should not be tolerated.
Re: Finnish war memorial - with swastika!
What about this one on the Buddhist temple? Any objections?
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