Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces Questions

[Kwantung Armyman]

Hello guys I have a few questions regarding the Japanese Marines, better known as Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces (JSNLF) or in Japanese Kaigun-Rikusentai. Here are two links which will show you most of what they are:

http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/SNLF.html
http://www.star-games.com/exhibits/snlf/snlf.html

Anyways, I'm just wondering if you guys can tell me if they are involved in the Second Sino-Japanese War? I think I heard from some that they fought in Shanghai can you guys varify for me ?

Also can you guys tell me which rifles they carried ? Did they carry the most widely used Arisaka T38 rifles or the newer Arisaka T99's ?

Thanks guys, hope to hear from you experts

[Lawrence]

The SNLF fought in both of the Shanghai battles (1932 and 1937) as well as other campaigns in the Sino-Japanese War. The SNLF had units at Hankow, Shanghai and the Yangtze river also.

The SNLF was mainly equipped with the Arisaka 38, but they were also given the Type 99 rifle. However, the type 38 was never fully replaced by the type 99 throughout the war.

Best regards.

[Kwantung Armyman]

Thanks for the info Kingsley, appreciate your time

[edward_n_kelly]

Were SNLF actually "marines" ? I have had an ernest discussion on the point with several people and the general consensus is they were "sailors in green uniforms" having recieved no special training in either infantry major tactics (battalion equivalent or higher), carried none of the major equipment assets of the Army infantry and were, particulalrly later in the the Second World War improvised units.

They were certainly not comprable wihe the Royal Marines or US Marines in their training (though their tenacity is not to be doubted).

Edward

[Jerry Asher]

SNLF grew out of ships shore parties put together from the ships crews as needed.

As the IJN was the primary agency for protecting Japanese lives, property and rights in Central and South China, more than ad hoc arrangements became necessary. My understanding is that particulary the disturbances in Shandong Province from 1928 on, impelled more formal structure. The SNLF that was involved in the 1932 Shanghai Incident led to a complete revamping, so that by 1937 each Naval District had one or more standing formations, Shanghai was special with its own Force of almost 3,000 men posted at Wuhan (Hankow 300 men,) and Shanghai.

SNLF trainned for "small" amphibious operations. Thus quick passage in destroyer or cruiser and debarkation from same. In contrast IJA responsible for "large" amphibious assault, i.e. division size

[asiaticus]

Kwantung Armyman, you write:

Anyways, I'm just wondering if you guys can tell me if they are involved in the Second Sino-Japanese War? I think I heard from some that they fought in Shanghai can you guys varify for me ?

The Second Sino-Japanese War, had a great deal of SNLF participation.

Up until July 1937 there were detachments on the various gunboat, and destroyer squadrons along the coast and on the Yangtze River, they evacuated the Japanese civilians to Formosa, and Shanghai in July - early August 1937.

They defended Japanese enclaves in China, made many landings on the coast of China, and up the Yangtze River and its tributaries both offensive and defensively.

Depending on when you consider the start of the war, they were involved in:

* January 28th Incident, the fighting in Shanghai 1932, they were involved
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=78115

* Shanghai in Aug-Nov.1937
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... nghai+1937

* Amoy Operation May 1938
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... c&start=15

* Battle of Wuhan June 1938
see Japanese Landing Operations - Yangtze, summer of 1938
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=90259

* Hainan Island Operation February 1939
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... c&start=60

* Battle of Nanchang March 1939
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... c&start=75

* Swatow Operation June 1939
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... c&start=60

* Battle of Changsha Sepember 1939
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &start=105

* 1939-40 Winter Offensive November 1939
SNLF units were part of Yangtze fleets defense of the Yangtze supply line to the Wuhan area that the Chinese 3rd War Area was trying to cut.

As time went on the Japanese Army became proficient in landing operations and the SNLF were less and less involved. The army made landings in:

* Battle of South Guangxi November 1939
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &start=120

* Indochina Expedition September 1940
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &start=135

* 2nd Battle of Changsha 1941

By the time the Japanese made thier landings in Malaya, Philipines, the East Indies and Pacific Islands they were a pretty well oiled machine, with four years of experience.

[Carl Schwamberger]

"By the time the Japanese made thier landings in Malaya, Philipines, the East Indies and Pacific Islands they were a pretty well oiled machine, with four years of experience. "

Thats my take. The SNLF were never expanded to corps size formations as were the US Marines. The brigade size formations were created by adding non SNLF companys & battlaions, such as Naval Service units, Korean laborers, Japanses Army units. So the 'Naval Brigades on many of the islands were not pure SNLF formations. There is also a question about the quality of some of the SNLF units created afrom 1943. They may have been less well trained than the experinced battalions from 1938 or 1942.

The experinced SNLF units that defended several islands gave the US a lot of trouble tactically. Usually more than the IJA Army regiments. They seem to have used better infantry tactics and may have been much less dependant on 'Banzi Charge' type shock tactics.

[Kwantung Armyman]

Thanks so much guys, really informative of what I learned from you all

Asiaticus - I'm enlightened, thanks again !!

[Kwantung Armyman]

Oh and sorry, forgot to ask in my last post. Can you tell me what type of amphibious landing transport the Japanese used for their landings? I know the Americans used the landing boats with the ramps like from the movies Saving Private Ryan and the Thin Red Line. What did the Japanese use? Same kind of transport boat? Please let me know if you have the answer thanks

[Peter H]

See here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=80523

[asiaticus]

Check Taki's site here the Vessel section:

http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/vessel.htm

[Peter H]

Was the IJA ever involved in advanced infantry training for the SNLF?

This US Intelligence estimate states that the basics were introduced to IJN recruits:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japan/I ... B-5-1.html

..every naval recruit was given training in land warfare concurrently with training in seamanship.

[Akira Takizawa]

Was the IJA ever involved in advanced infantry training for the SNLF?

No. The training of SNLF ended with battalion level and they had no ability to carry out a large-size operation.

Taki

[Kwantung Armyman]

Thanks so much guys for the wealth of info My questions are all answered !!

[Jerry Asher]

The basic Japanese landing craft was the Daihatsu, which came in 14 thorugh 17 meter lengthns. It existed many years prior to the American LCVP and infact a picture of its use in 1937 on the Yangzi made it into USNaval Intelligence files. Reportedly, it was when Higgins examined that photo, that he had the insight for the LCVP. The best descriptions I've read are in A Dutch Spy in China, edited by Ger Teitleer, and publshed by Brill in 1999. A good university library shoud have it.