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Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Discussions on all aspects of the Japanese Empire, from the capture of Taiwan until the end of the Second World War.
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Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Brady on 17 Sep 2008 18:16

I know all armed forces made some use of captured equipment, but the Japanese seam to realy of gone at it almost as if they ahd planed to do so, their are many referances for this and tons of Pictues showing it, below a picture showing a Cpatured Dutch tank far from whear it was taken, and a Captured Japanese gun, along with a Key I did, the picture is a favorate of mine as their is so much going on in it.

Image


A)Dutch M1936 VCL tankette, This may be, Interesting...
B)Type 94 37mm Anti-Tank Gun,it is[:)]*
C) Johnson M1941
D)M1910 Pick Mattox
E)Looks to be a M7 sholder holster, for M1911A1 pistole
F)Canteen and above Ammo pouches for the Johnson I Beleave
G) Marine Raider's Bougainville, Two Pice camuflage utalitys and Helmet cover.
H) M1 Garand
I) Spent Shell cassings, the Type 94 was in later war years used more and more often as an infetry suport weapon and had a variety of ammo types for this role, namely HE, since it's AP value had diminished and been suplanted to a degree by the 47mm Type 1 ATG.

..............

My Question is, was their an oficial policy to use captured equipment or did this ocure on an individual uinit leval?
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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Akira Takizawa on 18 Sep 2008 04:49

> A)Dutch M1936 VCL tankette, This may be, Interesting...

Interesting. This photo was taken on Bougainville? I did not know that the Japanese on Bougainville used Dutch tank.

> My Question is, was their an oficial policy to use captured equipment or did this ocure on an individual uinit leval?

The use of captured weapons was a part of Japanese weapon system. The way to capture and arrange enemy weopons was stated on Sakusen Yomurei (Notification on Operations).

http://www.warbirds.jp/sudo/sakusen/s3_5.htm
Sakusen Yomurei wrote:第265 毀損、残置、又は鹵獲せる軍需品、或は再用可能の物件は、縦い直ちに利用せざるものと雖も速やかに之を回収するに勉むること緊要なり。之が為、各部隊は先ず自力を以って之を収集し、又は散逸を防止するを要す

第266 収集せる兵器、被服、糧秣、燃料、金櫃、馬等は、彼我両軍のものに分ち目録を調製し報告す。而して、現品は適当の地点に集積し兵站部隊に引継ぎ、重要書類は速やかに高等司令部に送附するものとす
死者の携帯兵器、銃砲の打殻薬莢、燃料缶等も、為し得る限り前項に準じ処置するを可とす
不発の弾丸及び爆薬等の危険品、ならびに撒毒地域を発見せば、之を標示して上級指揮官に報告す

第267 鹵獲せる兵器、材料等にして特殊のものは貴重なる情報資料たるべきを以って、機を失せず高級指揮官に報告し、又、技術上の研究に資する為、其の一部を後送するを要す

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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Brady on 18 Sep 2008 06:45

I translated that passage, google rocks, but it was prety rough, but I got the jist of it.

So it would seam it was oficial policy, I have sean everything from Thompsons SMG's to 8 inch CD guns that the Japanese put into use. This rasies a lot of questions realy. I had thought such use was limited and incedentail, but it seams far more wide spread and instutional.

Take the Dutch tank in the shot above, it is a very rare VCL M1936, So what ever unit was aloted this had to be traied in some way to service it, or they just figured it out???, and asuming the guns were the saem as it was fited with origianly, enemy stocks would of had been captured inventoired and aloted to the unit in question.

For items like a Stuart, or a Boffors 40mm AA gun, or a Thompson SMG, these were comparatively far more numiours, but the same procedure would of been nescessary, I know the Germans sometimes made ammo for captured weapons.

Questions:

1) Did the Japanese make ammo for captured weapons?

2) Did the captured weapons show up in the inventorys of the units that fielded them (example above the Dutch tank on Bogunavuile?)?


.............

I have two sources that state the image was taken on Bogunavile, and the Troops are US Marine Raiders, whats interesting is that their are a lot of spent shells for the AT gun, they had been prety busey, it is likely their are more tanks or other vehicals out of shot, the image is also croped, in the foreground are many Japanese ammo boxes for the AT gun, to the right out of shot (in the croped portion) are stacks of US "K" rations, casses of them piled high. The photographer was also a Time Life corespondant who landed with the raiders, so I beleve the location is prety reliable.
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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Akira Takizawa on 18 Sep 2008 10:36

1) Did the Japanese make ammo for captured weapons?

The Japanese produced the ammunition for Dutch rifle and Boffors 40mm AA gun at Bandung Arsenal. But, it is rather exception. In many cases, they were captured ammo only.

Some guns were improved to fit with Japanese ammunition. The breech of PAK 35/36 was replaced with Japanese parts, probably from Type 94 37mm AT.

2) Did the captured weapons show up in the inventorys of the units that fielded them (example above the Dutch tank on Bogunavuile?)?

In many cases like that Dutch tank, they were extra equipments and not shown on TOE. But, some captured weapons like PAK 35/36 or Borfors 75mm Mountain Gun were issued to units as formal equipments and they were recorded on TOE.

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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Peter H on 18 Sep 2008 10:51

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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Brady on 18 Sep 2008 16:22

Taki, thanks for the help, and thanks for the link Peter.


Were These Captured equipments isued in leu of Japanese equipemts that would of other wise been isued, or in adation to, example:

1) The Dutch Tank, it seams to of been an adational item, not part of the units TOE.

2) Boffors 40mm, they being far more plentiful, would of been posably isued instead of Japanese equipment?
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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Akira Takizawa on 18 Sep 2008 16:35

1) The Dutch Tank, it seams to of been an adational item, not part of the units TOE.

I have never seen it in Japanese TOE on Bougainville. So, it will be extra.

2) Boffors 40mm, they being far more plentiful, would of been posably isued instead of Japanese equipment?

Some Boffors 40mm seem to be used by the Japanese. But, they were mainly used by Japanese allied armies like Indian National Army or PETA (Indonesian Volunteer Army).

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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Brady on 18 Sep 2008 20:47

Akira Takizawa wrote:1) The Dutch Tank, it seams to of been an adational item, not part of the units TOE.

I have never seen it in Japanese TOE on Bougainville. So, it will be extra.

2) Boffors 40mm, they being far more plentiful, would of been posably isued instead of Japanese equipment?

Some Boffors 40mm seem to be used by the Japanese. But, they were mainly used by Japanese allied armies like Indian National Army or PETA (Indonesian Volunteer Army).

Taki


Ok, Thanks again,

Their was a pasage in the "Jungle is Neutrail" whear the author describes whole Japanese units (or it seamed to him) that were equpied with the Thompsom SMG, he stated they had captured, would this be an item listed in the TOE, or just an adational item used untill no more ammo existed for it...In short did the Japanese make ammo for such items as infentry weapons( acknowledging you referance to the Dutch rifles above)?
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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Akira Takizawa on 19 Sep 2008 06:32

Brady wrote: In short did the Japanese make ammo for such items as infentry weapons( acknowledging you referance to the Dutch rifles above)?


In China, many Czechoslovak LMG ZB26 were captured. As it was excellent LMG, many were used by the Japanese and its ammo was produced at Japanese arsenals.

But, note that these are rather exeptional as I said before. I don't know any other examples but them.

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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Brady on 19 Sep 2008 17:06

Thats why I have sean the photos of the Japanese using the Checz LMG...Thanks Taki for your help.
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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Sewer King on 29 Jul 2009 04:41

A destroyed Japanese M3 halftrack (T12 carriage for 75mm gun) in the Philippines, where it had been captured earlier and later used against the returning Americans. Photo was undated and its location not further identified. As captioned where published below, it had been pushed over the side of the bridge where it was knocked out.

Image
Hunnicutt, R. P. Half-Track: a History of American Semi-Tracked Vehicles (Presidio Press, 2001), page 178.

Presumably it remained in its original olive drab paint. What markings might the IJA have given it, if any, other than painting out the American ones?

Wouldn’t captured M3s have seen little use by Japanese garrison forces for two years before being sent against their original owners?

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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Akira Takizawa on 29 Jul 2009 06:31

I upload better photo. "XX unit captured" is painted on the side. But, XX cannot be read.

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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby JoeB on 29 Jul 2009 21:39

Just to further clarify the location of the initial photo, it's the raid on Koiari by the Marine 1st Parachute Battalion in November 1943, per caption of official photo, which is a different crop of that one. Koiari was some miles east of the main Marine beachhead at Cape Torokina. The Bn. landed however in the middle of (what was perceived from US side as) a main Japanese supply area, and was forced to withdraw by boat back to the main beachhead. From reading the first post it seemed implied all that stuff was captured by the Japanese! but I see later it's just the vehicle, Marine Raider/Parachute units of course used Johnson rifles, interesting mix by then of M1 and Johnson.

But how are you sure this is a VCL tankette? Also note that nominally similar vehicles were captured in China (see MOHITOTSU NO RIKUGUN HEIKISHI p.112 for a photo), though again maybe there's some specific thing in the photo which makes it definitely ex-Dutch, and I suppose captured Dutch is closer in time and place to the photo. It seems such a vehicle could be used also as light artillery tractor, and then perhaps it wouldn't be mentioned in accounts about Japanese armored units.

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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Ron Sundby on 30 Jul 2009 03:16

Alan wrote: Wouldn’t captured M3s have seen little use by Japanese garrison forces for two years before being sent against their original owners?


The Japanese brought relatively few vehicles to the Philippines for the use of their occupation forces. Instead they confiscated all kinds of vehicles (military and civilian) and pressed them into service. The M3 halftrack in question probably saw quite a bit of use during the years between its capture and its destruction.

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Re: Japanese Use of Captured Equipment

Postby Peter H on 30 Jul 2009 03:29

Here's some pics from the 1943 propaganda movie Dawn of Freedom one showing a Stuart used in the film.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=145429

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