Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

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Eugen Pinak
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Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#1

Post by Eugen Pinak » 08 Jul 2014, 11:08

Trying to translate TO&E of IJA infantry regiment and unable to translate couple of specialities - can anybody help? Can rightmost questions marks mean drivers and handlers of regiment's animals?

Also, does anybody knows, what were the jobs of technicians and horse-handlers(?) - other specialities are self-explaining.
IJA specialists.jpg
Thank you in advance,

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hisashi
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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#2

Post by hisashi » 08 Jul 2014, 14:36

兵技 weapon specialist
尉官 sublieutenant, lieutenant and captain
准尉 warrant officer
下士官 NCO
経技 sewing specialist (I am not sure shoemakers were included in this category)
馬取扱兵 horse handlers
I am not sure what means (イ). It is something of 'see note A' and below the page or in the end of article something like this would appear; 'A: subtotal of non-specialist line personnel'.


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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#3

Post by Eugen Pinak » 08 Jul 2014, 16:22

Hisashi - thank you!
I am not sure what means (イ). It is something of 'see note A' and below the page or in the end of article something like this would appear; 'A: subtotal of non-specialist line personnel'.
Certainly not. On the TO&E (this document on JACAR, pp.5 and 6) all notes are marked by numerals. TO&E shows, that this group handles most regimental horses. And the note number 9 say, that those "I" soldiers were to come from train troops. So my guess is - those people are conductors or drivers of regimental animals.

BTW, there is another surprise for me in this TO&E - it gives detailed numbers of men and horses, but provides no detailed data on weapons and equipment. Does it means, that each TO&E was complemented by another official document, describing weapons and equipment of the unit?

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fontessa
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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#4

Post by fontessa » 08 Jul 2014, 16:43

Good evening Pinak:
Eugen Pinak wrote: BTW, there is another surprise for me in this TO&E - it gives detailed numbers of men and horses, but provides no detailed data on weapons and equipment. Does it means, that each TO&E was complemented by another official document, describing weapons and equipment of the unit?
In Imperial Japanese Army, what you called TO&E was called 編制表 Organization Table. And 諸部隊兵器表 Equipment Table prescribes the equipment strength.
http://www.jacar.go.jp/DAS/meta/image_C ... G_S1=InfoD&

For Air units it was called 兵器定数表 Equipment Table.
http://www.jacar.go.jp/DAS/meta/image_C ... LGC_A1=AND&

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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#5

Post by Eugen Pinak » 08 Jul 2014, 19:21

Fontessa - I can only imagine, how hard would have been IJA research for me without your help, as well as help from other forum members. Thank you all, guys! :)

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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#6

Post by hisashi » 09 Jul 2014, 03:48

Eugen Pinak wrote:Hisashi - thank you!

TO&E shows, that this group handles most regimental horses. And the note number 9 say, that those "I" soldiers were to come from train troops. So my guess is - those people are conductors or drivers of regimental animals.
Ah, yes. here 輜重兵 is a service-in-arm, logistics personnel. 1 company officer(sublieutenant-captain) , 1 NCO and 123 men handled 10 乗馬 (horses for riding) and 94 輓馬 (horses for towing). They were for columns in the regiment. Eight 馬取扱兵 perhaps took care of officers' horses and helped veterinary staffs.

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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#7

Post by Eugen Pinak » 09 Jul 2014, 09:24

OK, so here is my second attempt - hope it's correct this time:
IJA specialists.jpg
Hope it will be useful to other non-Japanese members of this forum as well.

And another question. Note number 1, which describes organization of the rifle company, says about the organization of rifle squads: "第三分隊は長以下十三名". Does it mean, that the 3 rifle squads each had "squad leader PLUS 13 soldiers" (i.e. 14 men) or "squad leader AMONG 13 soldiers" (i.e.13 men)?

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fontessa
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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#8

Post by fontessa » 09 Jul 2014, 14:03

Good afternoon Pinak:

The composition of squads was as follows.
■ 1st ~ 3rd Squads consisted of 13 men including a squad leader
- 2 men for a light machine gun (a gunner and a loader)
- 11 riflemen including a squad leader
■ 4th squad consisted of 12 men including a squad leader
- 3 men for 3 heavy grenade dischargers
- 9 riflemen including a squad leader

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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#9

Post by Eugen Pinak » 09 Jul 2014, 15:21

I see - so in this case "以下" means "among the following number". One small step up in my learning of the Japanese language :)

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hisashi
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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#10

Post by hisashi » 09 Jul 2014, 16:33

Literally,'以下' means
1.equal or lower in number
2. lower than; say 人間以下の扱い means abuse, 'treat as anything under human being'.
For example, if Senate Jones visits Japan with nine staffs as a mission, it may be on newspaper as ジョーンズ上院議員以下10名の代表団が来日. 以下 here have a nuance of '10 men headed by Mr.Jones' and implicitly states the others are under him.

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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#11

Post by Eugen Pinak » 09 Jul 2014, 18:34

So that's the reason for such a wording! And I've almost missed this nuance. Well - sometimes even a vocabulary can be misleading :) Fortunately, you've clarified this for me.

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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#12

Post by Wellgunde » 11 Jul 2014, 06:04

Eugen, Thank you for sharing this information. Thanks also to Messrs. Fontessa and Hisashi for their clarifications.

@Fontessa: How do you read 編制表, 諸部隊兵器表, and 兵器定数表? Did the IJN use similar terminology?

Thanks,
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fontessa
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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#13

Post by fontessa » 11 Jul 2014, 22:15

Good afternoon Wellgunde:
Wellgunde wrote:How do you read 編制表, 諸部隊兵器表, and 兵器定数表?
編制表: henseihyou
諸部隊兵器表: shobutaiheikihyou
兵器定数表: heikijousuuhyou
Wellgunde wrote: Did the IJN use similar terminology?
In Navy 編制表 was called 定員表 teiinhyou.
The example is page 4 of the web page below.
http://www.jacar.go.jp/DAS/meta/image_C ... G_S1=InfoD&

There should have been the table corresponding to 諸部隊兵器表 or 兵器定数表, but I could not find it.

fontessa

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Re: Specialist personnel in infantry regiment

#14

Post by Wellgunde » 12 Jul 2014, 05:16

Fontessa, thank you very much!

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