Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

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Carl Schwamberger
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Re: Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

#16

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 26 Aug 2014, 00:36

hisashi wrote:...

Operation FS was cancelled in 11 Jul 1942 seeing the fail in Midway, following a proposal of cancellation from navy general staff to army general staff dated 7 Jul. ...... On 1 Jun RAdm Yamada, 25AS CO, reported to 11th air fleet (a combined unit of ground-based/seaplane air groups) to propose the construction of airfield at Guadalcanal. They passed on the proposal to the combined fleet just after the defeat in Midway, not knowing the defeat yet. The combined fleet confirmed that no other airfield seems available between Rabaul and Guadalcanal by an additional inquiry to 25AS.

On 19 Jun the combined fleet directed 11th air fleet to prepare for Guadalcanal airfield. The first construction units, earmarked by the combined fleet, arrived there on 6 Jul. ....
I am guessing the motivation for the air field on Guadalcanal was to picket the eastern approaches to Raubal, and New Guniea. USN carriers had made trouble thrice before, in February, March, and May, and there was a plan or expectation of another try at Milne Bay by the IJN. If the offensive it was to support has been canceled, then there must be other reasons for its establsihment.

There is also the question of the perception of practicality between Op FS & RE. My guesses as why Op RE was still thought practical & FS not, may be wrong.

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Re: Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

#17

Post by wdgysin » 29 Aug 2014, 00:52

While Operation FS was technically cancelled, the Japanese (Army & Navy both) were not prone to going on the defensive. Yamamoto was eager to keep the US off balance as he new what would surely happen otherwise. The airfield was established under the Combined Fleets Operation SN to swiftly establish bases in the Pacific and SW Pacific for reconnaissance and to blunt any counterattacks the Allies may have been mounting. Operation Watchtower was a very near thing as far as timing was concerned since once the airfield was established there were plans to move in fighters and bombers for offensive and defensive missions right away to augment the reconnaissance forces already stationed at the seaplane base. Also, the base originally planed for support of Operation FS, could still be used for such support if and when the Japanese decided to re-initiate Second Phase operations.
I think one of the key problems of the Japanese in the SW Pacific area was that they were caught up with Guadalcanal so unexpectedly, even though they knew from sigint that a possible counterattack was coming. While their reaction to the landings was swift and decisive, The 8th Fleet and the 17th Army were now forced to divide their resources between New Guinea (which they had been concentrating on) and Guadalcanal. Allied resources, in the form of SWPA and SOPAC, while they generally did not coordinate well at first, were both aimed at reducing Rabaul and this divided Japanese attention in two different directions to fend off the threats. It wasn't until later that the 18th Army and IJA aviation resources were moved in that this pull in different directions was amended.


Carl Schwamberger
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Re: Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

#18

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 29 Aug 2014, 02:06

While the idea Op FS might be revived is intriguing I'm not researching a WI in this. Just trying to get a deeper grasp of the Japanese thinking over the S Pacific April to September. Is there anything in the Japanese record that indicates anyone was still taking the idea seriously?

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Re: Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

#19

Post by wdgysin » 02 Sep 2014, 16:59

No, as Hisashi stated, the operation was called of in early July, but prior to that when it was postponed forces were told to proceed with training and the operation was projected for December 1942. The 17th Army, 8th Fleet and 26th Air Flotilla, among others, were all created for Operation FS and movements and training were proceeding apace when it was called off, due to the Coral Sea and Midway battles and the loss of carrier support. Even after that the Japanese were continuing with their second phase operations with Operation RI (a ground version of MO) and most effort was geared to support it until Guadalcanal. Anything after that is pure conjecture since they were caught up in the ground and air meat grinders of New Guinea and Guadalcanal and had then lost the initiative.

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Re: Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

#20

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 03 Sep 2014, 01:47

Thanks. I think I have now a basic understanding of the FS operations & its preparations. A new question does intrude. With preparations starting in the late spring, but the actual operation not contemplated until "December 1942" then there are implications of intermeadiate or enabling operations. It appears the preparation of the Solomons airbase (Tulagi & Gudalcanal) is one such. What else might have been a pre December supporting operations for FS?

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Re: Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

#21

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 03 Sep 2014, 07:51

Carl Schwamberger wrote: There is also the question of the perception of practicality between Op FS & RE. My guesses as why Op RE was still thought practical & FS not, may be wrong.
Operation RE?

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Re: Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

#22

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 03 Sep 2014, 15:06

Op RE was the attempt to capture Milne Bay, at the end of August/early Sept 1942. Earlier Op MO was the attempt to capture Port Morseby the Coral Sea battle aborted.

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/ba ... e_bay.html
Last edited by Carl Schwamberger on 04 Sep 2014, 04:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

#23

Post by wdgysin » 04 Sep 2014, 02:51

I believe Operation RE was the first and only attempt to capture Milne Bay from the Allies. The Allies did not establish an airfield at Milne Bay until late June 42, after Midway. The Coral Sea stopped Operation MO, which was the first attempt on Port Moresby (Operation RI being the second or overland attempt).

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Re: Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

#24

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 04 Sep 2014, 04:22

That would be correct. More accurate to say Op RE was the second attempt to secure south east New Guinea with a amphibious operation. The specific targets in the two were different.

Corrected my earlier post, & thank you.
Last edited by Carl Schwamberger on 04 Sep 2014, 04:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

#25

Post by cstunts » 04 Sep 2014, 04:23

But, surely you've read Wilmott? http://www.amazon.com/The-Barrier-Javel ... 1591149495

As for fantasies about all 102 vols of "Senshi Sosho" being translated into English anytime soon...that's clearly nonsense.

You are much much better off going directly into JACAR with a capable Japanese-language researcher and/or translator on your own. Relying on Western sources that predate the Eighties at this point is probably not a good tactic...Especially when the actual primary source records are available online...

By the same token operational records aren't going to give you much info on strategic thinking. For that, as Hisashi has indicated, biographies of the leading participants--which do indeed exist--are much to be preferred.

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Re: Offensive Intent Late 1942 - SE Pacific?

#26

Post by wdgysin » 08 Sep 2014, 03:22

The object is and always will be understanding (that is the reason this forum exists). The more sources the better! As I have always believed, the mark of a true historian is the presentation of all sides of the conflict, to understand the actions and motivations in the events of history. I have watched the evolution of researching since the 60's and the massive growth and ease of accessibility to resources since the coming of the Internet. I have no doubt that eventually we will see translations of all these volumes, if just in the form of postings to the web when the copyright runs out and translation software improvements. Your right about sources before the eighties, most have been superseded due to their lack of original source material, and biographies are an excellent source of information. As someone who has studied WW 2 since I was in my pre-teens (I'm 57 now), I find this time exciting. But we're getting somewhat off topic.

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