Locomotive production of USA/GB

Discussions on the economic history of the nations taking part in WW2, from the recovery after the depression until the economy at war.
Politician01
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Locomotive production of USA/GB

#1

Post by Politician01 » 18 May 2014, 09:18

I found numbers for the germans - they build some 17 000 locomotives from 1940-1944
I also have numbers for the Soviets which state that they build some 1000 Locomotives from 1939-1945 - only 90 between 1942-1945

But what about the Locomotive production of Great Britain and the USA?

I can imagine that the loco production of the USA was massive - How about britain though?

GregSingh
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#2

Post by GregSingh » 18 May 2014, 15:17

According to Mierzejewski, Germany's numbers for 1940-44 were 12096.
Soviet's numbers for 1940-44 (Rakov) were 1680, in 1939 alone number was 1012. Post number #154 in "German Railways in the East" topic has a table.

UK numbers (based on manufactures data) were around 2138 for 1940-47:
WD Austerity 2-8-0 - 935 (1943)
WD Austerity 2-10-0 - 150 (1943-45)
Hunslet Austerity 0-6-0ST - 377 (1943-47)
Class 8F - 676 (1942-46)


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Andy H
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#3

Post by Andy H » 19 May 2014, 12:06

Hi

Russia received some 1900 steam and 50 diesel locomotives via LL.
Source: Steel Rails to Victory by Ron Ziel

The same source gives a rounded figure of 40,000 for US loco production!

Regards

Andy H

Politician01
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#4

Post by Politician01 » 22 May 2014, 10:03

GregSingh wrote:
UK numbers (based on manufactures data) were around 2138 for 1940-47:
WD Austerity 2-8-0 - 935 (1943)
WD Austerity 2-10-0 - 150 (1943-45)
Hunslet Austerity 0-6-0ST - 377 (1943-47)
Class 8F - 676 (1942-46)
Any book or article where I can quote from?

GregSingh
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#5

Post by GregSingh » 22 May 2014, 11:02

Two good books:
J.W.P. Rowledge - Heavy Goods Engines of the War Department and R. Tourret - Allied Military Locomotives of the Second World War

Politician01
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#6

Post by Politician01 » 30 May 2014, 23:20

Andy H wrote:Hi

Russia received some 1900 steam and 50 diesel locomotives via LL.
Source: Steel Rails to Victory by Ron Ziel

The same source gives a rounded figure of 40,000 for US loco production!

Regards

Andy H
I found a good source for US loco production According to - Alexander, Edwin P. American locomotives - the US build only 6000 locomotives from 1939-1945.

41 000 Steam locomotives were present in 1950 in the US

If gregs numbers of some 2100 British locomotives build in 1940-1947 is reliable it would mean that Germany built nearly twice as many locomotives as the big three combined

GregSingh
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#7

Post by GregSingh » 31 May 2014, 09:48

I found a good source for US loco production According to - Alexander, Edwin P. American locomotives - the US build only 6000 locomotives from 1939-1945.
Does he provide any specifications by maker or class?

ALCO alone produced 4,488 locomotives during 1940-45. Baldwin and Lima made 1365 USATC S160 Class. Also Baldwin made 937 1-5-0 locomotives for Soviet Union. So we already have 6790.

There were also 2-8-2 USATC S200 »Mikado« and 2-8-0 Stanier 8F built by US for UK - in low hundreds - so we may be at around 7000.

RichTO90
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#8

Post by RichTO90 » 31 May 2014, 15:20

Politician01 wrote:I found a good source for US loco production According to - Alexander, Edwin P. American locomotives - the US build only 6000 locomotives from 1939-1945.
I'm afraid it can't be that good a source since its wrong. :D

U.S. Army Transportation Corps procurement of locomotives alone for just 1942-1943 was 7,570.

3,816 Standard Gage
2 30-inch Gauge
113 36-inch Gauge
186 42-inch Gauge
2,451 60-inch Gauge
336 66-inch Gauge
16 750mm Gauge
630 Meter Gauge

Unless he was talking about standard gauge only. :D

Anyway, of those, of the 60-inch gauge, 1,685 were 105-ton, 2-10-0 ALCO and Baldwin steam locomotives (built to the Soviet E-series design), 200 were 80-ton 2-8-0 USATC S160-class steam locomotives, and 70 were 127-ton diesel electric locomotives for the USSR.

GregSingh
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#9

Post by GregSingh » 01 Jun 2014, 03:27

U.S. Army Transportation Corps procurement of locomotives alone for just 1942-1943 was 7,570.
Yes, but it does not mean that all of them were actually built, only makers data can confirm that.
Also some of them from that 1942-1943 order were completed later in 1944, eg. ALCO diesel electric locomotives, and shipped to USSR in early 1945!

RichTO90
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#10

Post by RichTO90 » 01 Jun 2014, 06:09

GregSingh wrote:Yes, but it does not mean that all of them were actually built, only makers data can confirm that.
Sorry, but no, it means exactly that; the number that were actually built. Data is for quantities of items procured by year of delivery and is based upon plant acceptances. For the 60-inch Gauge 2-10-0 steam locomotives, 1,206 were accepted in 1944 and 883 in 1945. For the RSD-1s, 39 were accepted in 1944 and 61 in 1945.
Also some of them from that 1942-1943 order were completed later in 1944, eg. ALCO diesel electric locomotives, and shipped to USSR in early 1945!
Nobody asked for when they were delivered to the Soviets; the question was how many were built. Note that the order for the E-series locomotives was for 2,047; the 1,685 were what was shipped as Lend-Lease through 1945. Of the 200 S160-class, six were lost en route and one never left the US. Yes, the 70 RSD-1's were shipped in 1945, two were lost en route, the rest were received.

GregSingh
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#11

Post by GregSingh » 01 Jun 2014, 09:36

Sorry, but no, it means exactly that; the number that were actually built.
But I don't know how to explain this:
From USA/TC order for 1942-43:
2 30-inch Gauge
113 36-inch Gauge
186 42-inch Gauge
16 750mm Gauge
630 Meter Gauge
It's 947 locomotives, but it seems (R.Tourret) that only 816 narrow-gauge 2-8-2 and 33 narrow-gauge 0-4-0P were made.
That's 849. I know of 43 USATC S118 Class narrow-gauge 2-8-2 being cancelled from that order. Still we miss close to 50...

That's why I think that not all were built from that order. Only happy to be proven otherwise... :)

RichTO90
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#12

Post by RichTO90 » 02 Jun 2014, 03:04

GregSingh wrote: But I don't know how to explain this:
Perhaps because your data are faulty? :D
From USA/TC order for 1942-43:
That is not an "order"; it is the total number accepted, 1942-1945 (nominally 1940-1945, but there is no data for acceptances 1940-1941). By year it is (1942/1943/1944/1945):

All locomotives:
Standard Gauge 814/1424/838/740
30-inch Gauge 2/0/0/0
36-inch Gauge 25/57/23/8
42-inch Gauge 35/34/65/52
60-inch Gauge 1/200/1270/980
750mm Gauge 0/0/0/16
Meter Gauge 26/368/204/32

GregSingh
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#13

Post by GregSingh » 02 Jun 2014, 11:04

Thanks for your help with those numbers. I appreciate it.

RichTO90
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#14

Post by RichTO90 » 02 Jun 2014, 13:25

GregSingh wrote:Thanks for your help with those numbers. I appreciate it.
No problem, I can give you a more complete breakdown by types if you need.

Gooner1
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Re: Locomotive production of USA/GB

#15

Post by Gooner1 » 02 Jun 2014, 16:35

UK production of Steam locomotives from 'Fighting with Figures'

Year - Main line types/Industrial types

1940 - 272/84
1941 - 234/110
1942 - 350/110
1943 - 797/58
1944 - 1050/45
1945 - 754/43

Total - 3457/450

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