Me 110 fighter

[waldorf]

I was curious exactly how effective this plane was as a fighter?

Chris

[Tony Williams]

As a night fighter it was OK. As a day fighter - it needed its own escort fighters. 'Nuff said.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

[waldorf]

Thank you Mr. Williams. The Foresight War sounds like a very interesting concept.

Chris

[Kurt_Steiner]

Just take a look at the Me 110 role as a day fighter in Poland and in the BoB. A terrible disappointment for the Luftwaffe.

[M.Rausch]

Hi Tony!

Sorry, but the Bf 110 never received fighter escorts, that's a very old myth. That's mixed up, because Bf 110 gave bombers close escorts, while Bf 109 gave high escorts. The only Bf 110 unit getting a fighter escort at that time was the Erprobungsgruppe 210, which were the first flying it as fighter-bomber with good success and low losses.

The picture of the Bf 110 performance can not be found in an easy way. The Bf 110 suffered more than the Bf 109 already did, by the way they had to perform their bomber escort duties.

When they could hunt freely and were not forced to move with the low speeds of the bombers, they had to accompany, they did far better. The best Bf 110 pilot scored 12 Spitfire and Hurricane kills during the Battle of Britain. So in 1940 the Bf 110 could hold its own, but it could never protect the escorted bombers in an effective way and that's the real reason why it was a failure. It could not fullfill its role as long-range escort fighter. On the other hand the Bf 110 was found as superior over the Beaufighter, which they frequently met on maritime sorties over the Northern Sea and the Atlantic.

In Poland, the Bf 110 was quite successfull which led to the not justified confidence regarding the following battles in France and over Britain.

[richardrli]

Anyone heard of Leutnant Wilhelm Johnen?

[M.Rausch]

Of course, he was a night fighter pilot, who was rewared with the Knight's Cross.

You can read details about him under this link: http://www.luftwaffe.cz/johnen.html

And this site holds also the names and success numbers of the German BoB aces here: http://www.luftwaffe.cz/bob.html

You will notice that under the German top 42 aces from the BoB, there were at least 5 Bf 110 pilots. I am not sure if the 1st Gruppe of the Erprobungsgruppe 210 flew Bf 109 or Bf 110 (one Gruppe flew Bf 110, the rest Bf 109), so it were perhaps even 6 of them.

[Erich]

also of note that all of the top scoring Nachtjagd unit NJG 1 had the Bf 110G-4 till war's end except for Uhu equipped I. gruppe. It did what it had to do although by January 45 it was being overshadowed by the superiror Ju 88G-6 in the night time role.

[waldorf]

Thank you M.Rausch and others for the additional information about the Me 110.

Just a personal side note M.Rausch. My grandfathers family name before leaving Germany was spelled the same as yours. Oddly when they moved to America the "s" was dropped and ever since their name was Rauch.

[Pips]

An excellent book on the subject of the Me110 is that written by John Vasco. It covers it's role in the early stages of WWII, through to the end of the Battle Of Britain. It proved to be quite an effective fighter when it had the ability to roam the skies in free hunt mode, and was a devastating ground attack fighter. But when tactically limited to an escort role, a role it had to fulfill in the skies over Britain, it's weaknesses in relation to single-seat fighters became evident.

However it came to the fore again over the Balkans, Greece, Crete, the Western Desert, and Russia. In those theatres it was an accomplished fighter through to late '43, when increasing numbers of enemy single seaters told against it.

As a night fighter it was excellent - stable, fast (relative), heavily armed, with excellent flying manners. It was easily as good as the British Beaufighter and even capable of taking on the famed Mosquito.

[medieval dudes]

Good evening fellow Pilots
I always thought that the Me 110 looked like the British Battle bomber! But that is just me 8) !

Yet their role completely differs. I heard the Me 110's greates set back was its speed. It could be easily out manouvered by Spitfires and Hurricanes (in the early stages of the war of course). Actually how manouverable was it?

Could we consider the Me 110 and the P-51 Mustang in the same category as they were both long range escorters? Thanks in advance
Greg

[Robb]

The BF 110 was not in the same class as the Mustang which had a top speed over 400mph compared to the BF 110 at about 350mph. Also the BF 110 as a much larger twin engine plane was less manouverble than the single engine Mustang which also had a greater range. The BF 110 did a good job in the night fighter role as pointed out above in this thread, especially when it was equipped with radar.

[Trommelfeuer]

This pilot was also quite successful in his Me 110...

...Herbert Kutscha scored his first two victories while serving with 5./JG 77. Both were against british aircraft, in late 1939 and early 1940. In March 1940 Kutscha was transferred to ZG 1. Flying with that unit's 5. Staffel, he shot down two dutch aircraft during the fight in the west. These two victories are identified by orange triangles avove the victory bars. On 8 June 1940, over the border area with neutral Switzerland, aircraft of 5./ZG 1 engaged Swiss flown Bf 109s, one of which was shot down by Kutscha (white cross on red background, fifth victory bar).
During operations by the Staffel over Great Britain (5./ZG 1 was renamed 8./ZG 76 on 26 June 1940), Kutscha shot down three more enemy aircraft (a fourth was claimed, but it does not appear to have been confirmed). He and his Staffel, which was renamed 5./SKG 210 on 24 Apri 1941, moved east for operations against Russia.
Kutscha proved extremly succesful in the close-support role, and on 24 Sept. 1942 he was awarded the Knight's cross after 22 victories flying the Bf 110 and 2 on single-engined fighters. By then he was a member of 5./ZG 1, 5./SKG 210 having been renamed on 1 Jan. 1942. By the time he recieved the Knight's Cross, Kutscha had also destroyed 41 aircraft on the ground, 41 tanks, 15 locomotives, 11 anti-aircraft guns and 157 vehicles. In the months that followed, he continued flying the Bf 110 with 5./ZG 1.
In summer 1943 H. Kutscha returned to single engine fighters and took command oof 15/JG 4 in Italy. He susequently served as Gruppenkommandeur of II/JG 3, II/JG 27 and, from February 1945, III/JG 11. Kutscha flew more than 900 combat misions, claiming 47 victories, 22 of them while flying twin-engined fighters (14 in the east, 8 in the west).

source: Luftwaffe im Fokus 6/2004

[JonS]

Trommel - take a look at the first post again.

Here it is for convienience: "how effective was [the Me-110] as a fighter?"

[Trommelfeuer]

Herbert Kutscha shot down 22 enemy aircraft with his Me 110...
I wrote the rest (...destroyed 41 aircraft on the ground, 41 tanks, 15 locomotives, 11 anti-aircraft guns and 157 vehicles...) just for information.