Westwall
Re: Westwall
Hello Sturm78
This is called a "Casemate de Bourges" and were build on French forts from the type of Gen. Séré de Rivières
http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&safe= ... a=N&tab=wi
Regards Jos
This is called a "Casemate de Bourges" and were build on French forts from the type of Gen. Séré de Rivières
http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&safe= ... a=N&tab=wi
Regards Jos
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Re: Westwall
Isn´t this the "Casemate de Bourges" from pre WWI period?
http://www.fortiffsere.fr/cuirassements ... ge2560.htm
V.
http://www.fortiffsere.fr/cuirassements ... ge2560.htm
V.
Re: Westwall
There were more Casemate de Bourges, they were mostly additions to older fortresses to give the more punch.
JK
JK
Re: Westwall
The Casemate de Bourges were used to fill up the interval between the older French forts
from Séré de Rivières , but were placed in a later stadium then the forts themself .
For me a new photo from the visit of Hitler at the Westwall ?? , picture is from Ebay .
Regards Jos
from Séré de Rivières , but were placed in a later stadium then the forts themself .
For me a new photo from the visit of Hitler at the Westwall ?? , picture is from Ebay .
Regards Jos
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Re: Westwall
Could it be Tubpl?
(entrance in front wall-this could be in combat bunker?)
(entrance in front wall-this could be in combat bunker?)
Re: Westwall
Yes Andrew
I think you are right . a Truppenubungsplatz fits much better .
Regards Jos
I think you are right . a Truppenubungsplatz fits much better .
Regards Jos
Re: Westwall
A very nice picture of a westwall bunker.
Note the outside stove to the rigth of the entrance.
Unfortunately I cant remember were I found the picture.
C. Hoff
Note the outside stove to the rigth of the entrance.
Unfortunately I cant remember were I found the picture.
C. Hoff
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Re: Westwall
Looks like a 116a
Re: Westwall
Good evening Arthur and others,
I doubt that the image shows the entrance section of a R 116b. Instead of that I think this is a R 20. Pleas find attached an image of a still existing R 116b entry section in Saarbrücken. For better comparison I switched the image horizontaly. As you can see the sheltering roof above the Flankierende Anlage and the Pak Tor ends very close to the right side of the Pak Tor. This fits with the drawing in Bettinger / Büren "Der Westwall". Beside that the Flankierende Anlage on the original image does not look as big as it should be with a R 116 in Bneu. If you compare the way the sheltering roof ends above the right side of the Pak Tor this fits pretty much with a R20, also the much smaller Flankierende Anlage would fit.
Regards
Daniel
I doubt that the image shows the entrance section of a R 116b. Instead of that I think this is a R 20. Pleas find attached an image of a still existing R 116b entry section in Saarbrücken. For better comparison I switched the image horizontaly. As you can see the sheltering roof above the Flankierende Anlage and the Pak Tor ends very close to the right side of the Pak Tor. This fits with the drawing in Bettinger / Büren "Der Westwall". Beside that the Flankierende Anlage on the original image does not look as big as it should be with a R 116 in Bneu. If you compare the way the sheltering roof ends above the right side of the Pak Tor this fits pretty much with a R20, also the much smaller Flankierende Anlage would fit.
Regards
Daniel
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Re: Westwall
Hi Daniel, think you're right! I shouldn't interfere in Westwall stuff Any R 20 left?
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Re: Westwall
This is not the first time have seen a photo of a Westwall bunker with a stove outside. Was this before the stoves were put inside the bunkers or is there another reason for having the stove outside????c_hoff82 wrote:A very nice picture of a westwall bunker.
Note the outside stove to the rigth of the entrance.
Unfortunately I cant remember were I found the picture.
C. Hoff
Regards,
Malcolm
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/
Re: Westwall
HelloM19 MADMAL wrote:This is not the first time have seen a photo of a Westwall bunker with a stove outside. Was this before the stoves were put inside the bunkers or is there another reason for having the stove outside????c_hoff82 wrote:A very nice picture of a westwall bunker.
Note the outside stove to the rigth of the entrance.
Unfortunately I cant remember were I found the picture.
C. Hoff
Regards,
Malcolm
the ofen inside the Westwall bunkers were just made to heat the bunker. Specialy the first or old type of the Westwall ofen. Later types of these ofens had a smale kind of "cooking plate" at the side, but it was still complycated and painfully slow if you were realy hungry. Basicly with this ofens you could worm up the ready made food which was delivered to the bunker but cooked somewhere else.
As we see, these one outside the bunker at the picture is having a real cooking plate. So you can realy cook or even fry something in a pan. Those kind of "extra equipment" or improments around or outside the bunkers happend during the time of the Sitzkrieg when nothing realy happend at the western front. Same time they builded a lot of huts in front of the bunkers.
At least for the upper rhine valley secton of the Westwall I found a lot of documents in the Bundesarchiv Freiburg, which are telling that there wasn t enough field kitchens to make proper food for the troops. The divisons had to improvise by themselfs. Especially the bunkers which had been more isolated and far away from villages had been forced to help themselfs in such a way to make their beeing more comfortable.
Greetings Saska
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Re: Westwall
Hi Saska,Saska wrote:Hello
the ofen inside the Westwall bunkers were just made to heat the bunker. Specialy the first or old type of the Westwall ofen. Later types of these ofens had a smale kind of "cooking plate" at the side, but it was still complycated and painfully slow if you were realy hungry. Basicly with this ofens you could worm up the ready made food which was delivered to the bunker but cooked somewhere else.
As we see, these one outside the bunker at the picture is having a real cooking plate. So you can realy cook or even fry something in a pan. Those kind of "extra equipment" or improments around or outside the bunkers happend during the time of the Sitzkrieg when nothing realy happend at the western front. Same time they builded a lot of huts in front of the bunkers.
At least for the upper rhine valley secton of the Westwall I found a lot of documents in the Bundesarchiv Freiburg, which are telling that there wasn t enough field kitchens to make proper food for the troops. The divisons had to improvise by themselfs. Especially the bunkers which had been more isolated and far away from villages had been forced to help themselfs in such a way to make their beeing more comfortable.
Greetings Saska
Thanks for that.
Regards,
Malcolm
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/
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Re: Westwall
It is from here:Unfortunately I cant remember were I found the picture.
http://www.atlantik.nl/
Jens