"7.62 cm PaK 39 (r)"

[AvB]

Thanks!

Here's a second color picture from the same series as up the page. Source: Conseil Régional de Basse-Normandie / Archives Nationales du CANADA

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Two more images of this gun:


Images from http://lostimagesofww2.com
Sturm78

[peeved]

Based on quotes in Waffen-Revue N:o 84 pp.10...11 the modified F.K. 297 (r) appears to have initially been called 7,62 cm Pak 39, the designation later changing to 7,62 cm F.K. 39. Am no native German speaker so will just repeat the text.

War diary, Org.Abt. III des OKW, 18.8.1942:

Um die Zahl der brauchbaren Panzerabwehrwaffen zu erhöhen, hat nach Durchführung von Versuchen der Führer entschieden, daß neben der bisher verwendeten russischen F.K. 296 auch die etwas kürzere F.K. 297 aufgebohrt und als 7,62-cm-Pak umgearbeitet wird.

Während die Feldkanone 296 (r) nach dem Umbau als "7,62-cm-Pak 36" ohne einen Hinweis auf ihren russischen Ursprung, also auch ohne den Buchstaben (r), in Dienst gestellt wurde, geschah dies bei der Feldkanone 297 (r) mit derselben Gepflogenheit als "7,62-cm-Pak 39".

Minister Speer, "Führerprotokollen", 6.3.1943:

Dem Führer gemeldet, daß die ersten 400 Stück 7,62-Feldkanonen 39 bis zum 12. Mai ausgebohrt und einsatzfähig sind, daß die Fertigstellung der weiteren 370 mit Verschluß bis zum 30. Juni angestrebt wird und der Rest von etwa 250, wofür neue Verschlüsse angefertigt werden müssen, bis 31. Juli ausgebracht werden soll

Was the change perhaps to a degree motivated by the desire to avoid confusing the gun with 7,5 cm Pak 39 which became an important Jagdpanzer weapon from 1943 on?

Markus

[ChristopherPerrien]

deleted

[peeved]

Übersicht des im Feldheer bei der Artillerie als Div.-Art., Heeresküsten-Artl. sowie zusätchlich eingesetzten Beutegeschütze, Stand 1.3.44 in Waffen-Revue N:o 63 pp. 137...140 gives the number of 7,62-cm-Pak 39 at 359. OTOH an unsourced table for artillery pieces of non-German manufacture in active use in March 1944 in Waffen und Geheimwaffen des Deutschen Heeres 1933-1945, Band 1 by Fritz Hahn (pp. 176-178) doesn't include 7,62-cm-Pak 39 but mentions 359 7,62-cm-F.K. 39: 24 in the East, 259 in land and 36 in coastal artillery in the West and 40 in coastal artillery in Denmark. Thus the designations 7,62-cm-Pak 39 and 7,62-cm-F.K. 39 appear to have seen interchangeable use which tends to confirm that they were the same gun; Although probably F.K. 39 was the more correct designation by '44.

Markus

[Alanmccoubrey]

Markus, would it not also have depended upon the use to which the gun was being put ? After all the good old Pak 40 was also called an "F.K." when it was being used as such by the Volksgrenadier Divisions in their Artillerie Regiment.

[peeved]

Hi Alan,

Guess that's a possibility. Maybe only the main designation in use at a given time made it to the relevant Gerätliste; e.g. can't find the designations 7,5-cm-leichte-Feldkanone 40 or 7,62-cm-Pak 39 in Gerätliste, D 97/1+, Stoffgebiet 5-07 from 12.4.1945 in Waffen-Revue N:o 84, pp. 136...138.

Markus

[Yoozername]

Merkblatt 28/1 from April 1, 1944 lists the ammunition for the "Pak 36 u. FK 39" as the same. An interesting note is that the propellant weight has been reduced from the June '42 data. It was 2.6 Kg in 42 and its listed as 2.45 Kg in '44 (Pzgr 39 rot). They have a HE and HEAT round also in addition to the Pzgr 39 rot.

Most sources list the Pak 36 (r) as 740 M/s. But others note 710 M/s. This might be because of the propellant reduction. The FK 39 is listed as 675 M/s.

[Grzesio]

Most sources list the Pak 36 (r) as 740 M/s. But others note 710 M/s. This might be because of the propellant reduction. The FK 39 is listed as 675 M/s.

But smaller weight of the propellant may also be caused by a different powder type. For example, 8,8 cm Flak L/56 HE cartridges (8,8 cm Sprgr.Patr. L/4,5 (Kz.) in all variants) were filled with some 2.55 kg as well as 2.95 kg of powder, without affecting performance.

[Yoozername]

That's correct, and many HE and HEAT and Smoke shells were filled by alternative types (called out in Mbt 28/1, but the AP propellant is the same type.

[schwarzermai]

maybe you are looking for this order for designation

pak vs. feldkanone

[Yoozername]

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waf ... anonen.htm

Some info here also? It does not seem the whole Pak 40 as F.K. was a big player....

[Yoozername]

The H. Dv. 119/148 dated Mar 1943 calls out 7,62 cm Feldkanone 39 without the (r). It also states 2.41 Kg for the Pzgr Patr 39 rot. The HE has a MV of 520 M/s, The Pzgr Patr 39 rot has a MV of 600 M/s, and the Pzgr Patr 40 has a MV of 890M/s. The Hl/B and Hl/C are listed in an addendum as 420 M/s. The ammunition is clearly the long 'Pak 40' brass.

So, this weapon certainly had lower performance than the 7,62 cm Pak 36 but they shared ammunition. Given the superior German projectiles, which were also heavier, it would have better performance than the original Soviet weapon. I would still wonder if these were USV conversions or did the Germans also convert the later ZIS-3 guns?