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What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Discussions on the fortifications & artillery used by the Axis forces.

What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby elvamie on 29 Aug 2008 07:53

Forum members,

I can't explain the square hole in the floor of this small bunker, was it an entry for the communication wires or input of an external electricity power source.........

Image

Thnx !
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby JTG on 29 Aug 2008 09:05

Very prosaic: it's a sump for collecting water!

A cubic galvanised metal box with a flange around the top fitted into the hole (it had a bar accross at the top inside to lift it out) and a perforated galvanised plate clipped over it level with the floor.

Usually found in crew rooms to collect mop water, but can be elsewhere.

HTH,

John
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby elvamie on 29 Aug 2008 12:26

Thnx John,

Obvious an very logical purpose, do you have a photo, a title of a book or a document with this box ?

Would be great !!
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby jan lugtmeijer on 29 Aug 2008 15:40

Hi Elvamie,
Here's a drawing of a Sinkkasten.
Looking at your photo I see a climbing iron so my guess is that it was used to collect rain water in this particular place.
But usually they used them in the entrances and crew rooms like John said.

Jan

sinkkasten.jpg
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby JTG on 30 Aug 2008 21:02

Gas lock sump at RN La Mare Mill, Jersey:
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby JTG on 30 Aug 2008 21:07

More pictures
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby JTG on 30 Aug 2008 21:10

A couple more pictures
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby JTG on 30 Aug 2008 21:14

[quote="jan lugtmeijer"]Hi Elvamie,
Here's a drawing of a Sinkkasten.
Looking at your photo I see a climbing iron so my guess is that it was used to collect rain water in this particular place.
But usually they used them in the entrances and crew rooms like John said.

Jan


Jan's schematic is for a different type of box which seems to have a grid rather than just a perforated 3mm +/- plate on top.


Elvamie, what is the emplacement in your photograph?

Best,

John
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby kstdk on 30 Aug 2008 22:31

Hello

The top picture seems like a Koch Bunker - is´nt it?

Regards
Kurt
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby JTG on 30 Aug 2008 22:45

No idea!

I was thinking of a Grw. Pit or Tobruk?

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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby elvamie on 31 Aug 2008 15:30

John and Kurt thnx voor the answers and images, great value to me !

The position of this Kochbunker is Klingelbeekseweg Arnhem - Holland. There is a discussion overhere of who and when it was build. I'm thinking it was build between october 1944 and february 1945 as part of the Pantherstellung - Arnhem - IJsselmeer. The rare part of this object is the boxlike construction leading to the entrance.

Some pictures :
Image
Image
Image
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby michelb on 31 Aug 2008 18:30

elvamie wrote:John and Kurt thnx voor the answers and images, great value to me !

The position of this Kochbunker is Klingelbeekseweg Arnhem - Holland. There is a discussion overhere of who and when it was build. I'm thinking it was build between october 1944 and february 1945 as part of the Pantherstellung - Arnhem - IJsselmeer. The rare part of this object is the boxlike construction leading to the entrance.


There are more of those in that area. I think they are of the IJssellinie from the cold war. The Kochbunker i've seen so far are in constructed very rough, quick and bad. The ones in Arhem are to "new".

For example: http://www.krawa.info/Ex-Feld/Koch-Bunk ... unker.html

Regards,
Michel

Example in Poland.
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby elvamie on 31 Aug 2008 21:30

Michel thnx for your answer,

In Holland they had more time to build the defences in the Panther and Assenerstellung, they started in octobre 1944 and were still building them in at least februar 1945. In Polen they had less time and had to improvise. In the local archive I found maps and information about the periode after war when the trenches and bunkers had to be removed, the map also proves the existenz of trenches and positions on the exact locations of the Kochbunkers. I'm trying to prove this with the goal to protect these last remnants.
Many people here believe the Kochbunkers are from the Cold War period but the one on the picture is a special one. It was constructed along the railway embankment from Oosterbeek to Nijmegen with it's front southwards offcourse. The Dutch Army build the Cold War fortifications (Coehoorn and Deventer plans) and used this bunker again after they moved it to it's new position with it's front facing westwards, purpose defending the main works along the Rhine. They moved it 50mtr. A Dutch historian wrote the standard work on the Cold war fortifications, E de Reijer, he also mentions this in his work.

keep up the good work Krawa !
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby michelb on 31 Aug 2008 21:46

elvamie wrote:In Holland they had more time to build the defences in the Panther and Assenerstellung, they started in octobre 1944 and were still building them in at least februar 1945. In Polen they had less time and had to improvise.


There was enough time in Poland. But is was the nature of the Kochbunker. Simple design. Simpel buildingblocks. Just stack them in the config you need them. The Kochbunkers i've seen so far (myself and on pictires) are very crude in fabrication.

On Henk Hulzenbos's site was to be a Kochbunker. This was near Wittelterbrug/Wittelte. The site is gone now. There could be more time for the Assenerstellung, but the Kochbunker is still very crude.

elvamie wrote:In the local archive I found maps and information about the periode after war when the trenches and bunkers had to be removed, the map also proves the existenz of trenches and positions on the exact locations of the Kochbunkers. I'm trying to prove this with the goal to protect these last remnants.
Many people here believe the Kochbunkers are from the Cold War period but the one on the picture is a special one. It was constructed along the railway embankment from Oosterbeek to Nijmegen with it's front southwards offcourse. The Dutch Army build the Cold War fortifications (Coehoorn and Deventer plans) and used this bunker again after they moved it to it's new position with it's front facing westwards, purpose defending the main works along the Rhine. They moved it 50mtr. A Dutch historian wrote the standard work on the Cold war fortifications, E de Reijer, he also mentions this in his work.


Does the documents speak of "Kochbunkers" or similar structures? Or just trenches? Are there more "Kochbunkers" in that area.

Regards,
Michel
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Re: What is the function of this hole in the floor of bunker

Postby elvamie on 01 Sep 2008 11:37

Michel, about 'crude' and mentioning of Kochbunkers

Untill now I haven't found a map wich mentions Kochbunkers, the map only gives the position of a bunker/kazemat. After a visit to the military and national archive I expect to find more details, story continous...

About 'crude', two of the four Kochbunkers have no 'Schartenring', they found a solution in using bricks to elevate the top see example :

Image
Image
Image

The second image shows two Kochbunkers in the garden of the museum for modern arts in Arnhem, Todt art....?

I found four Kochbunkers along the Rhine in Arnhem, FestPioStab 35 build 81 Kochbunkers in the Pantherstellung. They also constructed 21 of the planned 60 Regelbau bunkers voor Kwk43. Research continous, more info and details coming up...

With kind regards from Holland

p.s. What is your source for the explanation of the name Kochbunker ?
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