10.5cm ammo compatibility

[M19 MADMAL]

Hi,

Could the ammunition (shells not cartridges) for the 10.5cm le.F.H.18 be used by the 10.5cm K331(f)???

Regards,
Malcolm

[Zünder]

Yes and no.
The german manual that describes the ammunition for the 10,5 cm K 331(f) , H.Dv. 481/190, mentions both french and german made ammunition.
German made shells are:
- 10,5 cm K.Spr.Gr. 38(f)
- 10,5 cm K HL/B Gr. 39 (f)
- 10,5 cm K HL/C Gr. 39 (f)
- 10 cm Pzgr (f).

First impression is that these shell are the same as their le. FH 18 counterparts, same dimensions, same drivingsbands, same fuzes.
Only exception is the "f" painted on them as an extra, and in case of the Pzgr an extra "f"stamped in the base.

So, the manual says these shells are specifically for french guns, but it looks like in reality these shells are the same the ones for le.FH 18.

Zünder,

www.wk2ammo.com

[JTV]

My educated guess is that some shell types could be used with both 10.5cm le.F.H.18 and 10.5cm K331(f), but obviously not all. World War 2 era Finnish field artillery ammunition manuals that I have list a German-made HE-shell type (with three subversions with TNT, amatol and various fuses) weighting 14.81-kg. According manuals the particular shell type was used in both of these guns - and in addition of them also in two other heavy field guns (Polish M/29, Swedish M/34) and two other light howitzers (Finnish M/37, Skoda M/41). The same manual contains also Finnish-made HE-shell, which was also used with all these guns.

Jarkko

[M19 MADMAL]

Hi,

Thank you for your replies Zünder & JTV

I am planning to make some replica shells for the 10.5cm K331(f) casemate I help restore at Stp. Corbiere and I have seen several photos of the different shells for the 10.5cm Le.F.H.18 on the web so I can use these examples (and their transporting/storage crates) as a good base to start from.

Regards,
Malcolm

[M19 MADMAL]

Only exception is the "f" painted on them as an extra, and in case of the Pzgr an extra "f"stamped in the base.

Hi,

The photo below shows examples of 10.5cm Le.F.H.18 shells with the one on the left having a large black 'f' painted on it
(source; http://www.germanmilitaria.co.uk)
Regards,
Malcolm

[Zünder]

That's the Feld Haubitz Granate Fern for the le.FH 18 mit Mündungsbremse, it has nothing to do with the french guns.


Zünder,

http://www.wk2ammo.com

[M19 MADMAL]

Thanks for that!

Would you be kind enough to confirm that the following are shells used for the 10.5cm K331(f). The 1st photo below shows different types on display at the restored 10.5cm K331(f) Jäger casemate at Stp. Rotenstein, Guernsey and are listed, from left to right as,
1. French manufactured high explosive round (painted yellow with 'Mel' & a band in white).
2. German manufactured high explosive round (painted dark green).
3. French manufactured resin filled inert practice round.
4. German manufactured armour piercing round.

The second photo is of a round from a private collection here on Jersey which is said to be for a 10.5cm K331(f) and is described as a Armour piercing high explosive round.

Regards,
Malcolm

[M19 MADMAL]

Does 'Mel' mean high explosive in French???

Regards,
Malcolm

[jopaerya]

Hi Malcolm

Here some rounds in color http://www.lexpev.nl/downloads/d508bkennblatter.pdf page 57

Regards Jos

[M19 MADMAL]

Hi Jos,

http://www.lexpev.nl/downloads/d508bkennblatter.pdf

WOW! The info on is awesome! Thank you

I have seen the photos of the shells somewhere before on this forum but not as 'readable'
Plus the info on the relevant fuses for the shells and the colour codes for their crates is great

Thank you again,
Malcolm

[The Edge]

WOW! Complete Yugo stuff!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Zünder]

@Malcolm:
first of all, it's really difficult to actually identify these shells with 100% certainty; not without accurate measurements.

First picture shell nr. 1 (from left to right)
1- could be a Modèle 1914 HE shell, paintjob is way off, combining german weightclass symbol (III) with something that should resemble a french paintjob, this shell used to be filled with Melenite, which probably explains what "mel"stands for.
Haven't seen that on a french shell before.
2- could be a german 10,5 cm FH.Gr. with KPS drivingbands, it's not mentioned in the manuals, but since K 331(f) shot the 10,5 cm F.H. Gr. 38, maybe the used this one as well .
3- not sure what this is, could be a Mle 1914 or a FH.Gr., it seems to have the letters "BL"on it, which is the german code for for "Blind", or inert loaded.
It is however painted yellow, which is the colourcode for HE loaded shells.
So what ever it is, paint and code are not orginal and not very well researched.
4- no idea what this is, it almost seems a homemade shell, would like to see better pictures.

Second picture:
this is without a doubt a german 10 cm Panzergranate and thistype was shot by the 10,5 cm K.331(f).

Zünder,


www.wk2ammo.com

[M19 MADMAL]

Hi Zünder,

Thank you again

Guess they didn't use AHF for info

no idea what this is, it almost seems a homemade shell, would like to see better pictures.

This is the best I can do.

Regards,
Malcolm

[Zünder]

@Malcolm: yeah, that's what i thought; somebody made an object that should remeble a shell, painted and stamped it to make it look like something german.
Problem is, there are no german shells that actually look like this one, there's a red ring painted on the nose, which you won't find on german large caliber AP shells.
Not 100% sure, but even looks as if they got the codes wrong as well.

So much for finding the "truth" in museums..


Zünder,

http://www.wk2ammo.com

[M19 MADMAL]

Hi Zünder,

I will stick to the 10cm Panzergranate and the 10.5cm Gr. 345, Gr. 346 and Schr. 340 (f) as shown in Jos's link

Thank you again

Regards,
Malcolm