Id. naval guns

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Manuferey
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Re: Id. naval guns

#376

Post by Manuferey » 05 Dec 2012, 01:06

The title of the 4 in./45 (but not 40) in navweaps
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_4-45_m1917.htm
includes 102 mm/45 Schneider-Armstrong and 102 mm/45 Schneider-Canet.

Schneider being a French company, it could explain French words on a 102 mm/45 drawing. Could Schneider also have been involved in 102 mm 40 caliber naval guns for Greece? :idea:

Emmanuel

Dili
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Re: Id. naval guns

#377

Post by Dili » 05 Dec 2012, 02:25

Would they make a /40 just for some ships?
Also couldn't the guns came from just old Greek decommissioned ship and the French draw just puts them? The question here is how difficult to modify used guns for "wet" mounting. It could very well be easier to get them new.


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Submariner
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Re: Id. naval guns

#378

Post by Submariner » 06 Dec 2012, 10:02

Thanks so much Emmanuel and Dili for your time spend to do a research about my question that until now, it is a mystery!
And why is that?
It happens to serve in the Greek Naval History Service and I have all the archives (including construction plans, contracts, plans with technical specification, photos and etc), and the point is that in NONE of them there is an info about the gun!!! Not even the manufacturer!
I believe that some modifications have been made after the shipyard because in many photos of the trials, the canon is so simple without many parts on it. OR, they change afterwards the WHOLE canon in Greece. But in the diaries of the subs nothing of that action is described, only that they took them off for a while for repairs.
I also found in a topic on this forum (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=170584) the photo of a 102/35 Schneider-Armstrong that looks like these (and I mean pics of the trials). In an internet source also they say that the gun was a 100/40 Schneider QF(http://www.navypedia.org/ships/greece/gr_ss_glafkos.htm)...
In another site (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_4-40_mk7.htm) a part of the gun is similar and its type 4"/45 (10.2 cm) Vickers Armstrong Mark N...
Unfortunately even in the Hellenic Maritime Museum that the whole SAIL of "Papanikolis" submarine is kept, and that had the same type of the gun, -UNFORTUNATELY I say again-, after the war and in purposes of the museum excibition they change the gun and putted a type MARK V Vickers of 1942, that English subs had (Type U-V)... And the main problem is that nobody kept a record of where the prototype gun gone!!!
So, the mystery continues...
...see my pics to help you more about some spots of details that must take in mind in order to find the exact type!
Attachments
Detail-001.jpg
Here is the part of similarity with another gun (of Brazilian Navy)
Detail-001.jpg (53.52 KiB) Viewed 1016 times
Gun-02.jpg
In trials of Greek subs, after the gun is placed. Spot the simplicity of it.
Gun-02.jpg (27.64 KiB) Viewed 1016 times
Gun-Base01.jpg
In trialsof Greek subs, spot the gun base before the gun take place on it!
Gun-Base01.jpg (34.77 KiB) Viewed 1016 times
Last edited by Submariner on 06 Dec 2012, 10:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Submariner
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Re: Id. naval guns

#379

Post by Submariner » 06 Dec 2012, 10:04

some pics more...
Attachments
Detail-004.jpg
Details of the gun
Detail-004.jpg (39.31 KiB) Viewed 1015 times
Detail-003.jpg
Details of the gun
Detail-003.jpg (39.31 KiB) Viewed 1015 times
Detail-002.jpg
Details of the gun
Detail-002.jpg (26.36 KiB) Viewed 1015 times

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Submariner
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Re: Id. naval guns

#380

Post by Submariner » 06 Dec 2012, 10:07

Here is the Papanikolis SAIL (Tower) in Hellenic Maritime Museum
Attachments
papanikolis Vickers gun.jpg
The 3" Vickers Mark V that is not the genuine type of gun that Papanikolis had!
papanikolis Vickers gun.jpg (42.58 KiB) Viewed 1015 times

Dili
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Re: Id. naval guns

#381

Post by Dili » 06 Dec 2012, 20:20

Pitty the photos are not very good for detail. I suppose the originals were all lost by now.

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vladalex
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Re: Id. naval guns

#382

Post by vladalex » 07 Dec 2012, 17:49

Hello everybody,
I read yesterday about german naval guns from
Medusa: 4 x 1 - 105/40 SK L/40 from the link :

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/germany/ger_cr_niobe.htm

Can anyone to post some pictures (not drawings) with this guns (Arcona, Medusa, Thetis) ?
Regards,
VladAlex.

ludvig
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Re: Id. naval guns

#383

Post by ludvig » 07 Dec 2012, 21:05

Hello Vladalex ,
Here is an 10,5 cm S.K.L/45 in M.P.C/97 from
battery Bremen :

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/knok3.jpg/

Notice the recoil system are in three and nine o'oclock .
Guns were dismounted from Gazelle .

ludvig

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Re: Id. naval guns

#384

Post by ludvig » 07 Dec 2012, 21:15

Hello Vladalex ,
Battery list in WW II :
M.K.B. Hunduis
M.K.B.Kursaal
M.K.B.Ramien
M.K.B. Grand Bey
Here is a link :

http://atlantikwall.superforum.fr/t4987 ... 5mm-wz1897

ludvig

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ErwinZ
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Re: Id. naval guns

#385

Post by ErwinZ » 07 Dec 2012, 22:33

VladAlex: 10.5 cm SK L/40 from the SMS Emden. I assume it is the same gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graf_ ... Kanone.jpg

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Submariner
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Re: Id. naval guns

#386

Post by Submariner » 08 Dec 2012, 10:38

2 pics more to help you id the guns of Greek subs!!!
Attachments
PROTEFS TYPE-NAVAL GUN DETAIL-001.jpg
Greek sub gun
PROTEFS TYPE-NAVAL GUN DETAIL-001.jpg (41.97 KiB) Viewed 883 times
Detail from Above.jpg
Greek sub gun
Detail from Above.jpg (44.39 KiB) Viewed 883 times

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vladalex
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Re: Id. naval guns

#387

Post by vladalex » 08 Dec 2012, 11:49

ErwinZ wrote:VladAlex: 10.5 cm SK L/40 from the SMS Emden. I assume it is the same gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graf_ ... Kanone.jpg

Thank you ErwinZ and ludvig, for the usefull pictures.
How is possible , that with this guns (with poor sighting system, fire directors and low rate of fire)
to fire against WWII airplanes (Arcona, Gazelle, Medusa, Thetis) ?
Best Regards,
VladAlex.

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ErwinZ
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Re: Id. naval guns

#388

Post by ErwinZ » 08 Dec 2012, 13:14

Didn't the Flak kreuzers like the Medusa use the 10,5 cm Flak L/45 C/32 with a Wurzburg radar?

Dili
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Re: Id. naval guns

#389

Post by Dili » 08 Dec 2012, 17:24

Thanks Submariner, didn't Greek submarines participated into naval parades, sometimes there are even movies? usually there are better photos in those situations.

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Submariner
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Re: Id. naval guns

#390

Post by Submariner » 09 Dec 2012, 21:49

Dear Dili, ofcourse they participated but actually the photos of that ceremonies are taken from far away and less details can be seen. The pics that I posted all of them have been cropped to concentrate on the main subject that its the gun. They are high resolution images and comes directly from the archives but when you have to crop... :), you know...
George

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