4.5 cm Pak 184(r)

[Sturm78]

Thank you, Karlik.

The most significant external difference between the two models (from what I've been able to understand with the help of a translator) is the change of the wooden wheels to spoked wheels with tires in the model M1937.

Regards Sturm78

[Manuferey]

When looking at the two pages of the link referenced by karlik, it seems to me that the shield is slightly different between the 19-K and the 53-K version. Is it correct?

Emmanuel

[jopaerya]

Here a Ebay picture from this Russian pak gun .

Regards Jos

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Another image of this gun in German service:

Image from EBay
Sturm78

[ain92]

Hi all.

The most significant external difference between the two models (from what I've been able to understand with the help of a translator) is the change of the wooden wheels to spoked wheels with tires in the model M1937.

No, it isn't. First of all, there were several modifications that are not widely known:

• 1933: First modification of the semi-automatic gear of the breech-block, sliding wedge modified, breech strengthened; weight in action — 414 kg.
• 1934: Traversing mechanism modified and pneumatic spoke wheels grom GAZ-A (license copy of 1927 Ford A) introduced; weight in action — 425 kg.
• 1936: Pneumatic tires were replaced by airless (filled with sponge rubber), also wheel hub was strengthened, such "military" wheels were designated as ZIK-1; serial production started around January 1937.
• 1937: Serious redesign including technological changes etc.; weight in action — 560 kg. But only two things changed the visual appearance:
  — Cushioning introduced, so the wheel track increased;
  — In the centre of the elevating mechanism wheel a "button" (in Russian, колпачок механического спуска, literally cap of manual firing) was added to increase fire rate, compare http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... opped).jpg with http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... opped).jpg.
• Late 1930s: cushioning with twisting coil springs was replaced with a new design with compressing coil spring. I don't know for sure, but possibly the first design was copied or derived from Pak 35/36 and was not reliable enough for a heavier gun.
• Early 1940s: new, more simple and cheap disc wheels from GAZ-AA truck were introduced, they were mainly used on M-42.
• During the WWII the development of the Soviet metallurgy allowed to replace the jacketed tube with monobloc barrel.

When looking at the two pages of the link referenced by karlik, it seems to me that the shield is slightly different between the 19-K and the 53-K version. Is it correct?

What about the shield, I know about two types of them, the main difference is thickness (7 mm instead of 4.5 mm), also the latches are quite different.
PS
I have a 1940 manual for M1937 and 1953 manual for M1942 and M1937, if anyone who can't search the Runet want to get them I can help.

[Stan P]

Hello all

German 4,5cm PaK184(r) Eastern Front, July 1942

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Another image from EBay:

Sturm78

[AvB]

Ammo box for a 4.5cm Pak 184 (r).

[Larry Hayward]

Old posts revisited - some more photos. Are these the GAZ wheels referred to previously?

[Larry Hayward]

As above

[Larry Hayward]

I thought the wheels fitted to this preserved 45mm AT were only ever fitted to the 45mm AT gun with the extra long barrel. So if this gun is a proper version of the 'short barrel' 45mm AT gun what was its designation?

[Larry Hayward]

Another photo of a similar gun

[ain92]

I thought the wheels fitted to this preserved 45mm AT were only ever fitted to the 45mm AT gun with the extra long barrel. So if this gun is a proper version of the 'short barrel' 45mm AT gun what was its designation?

Hello, Larry.
The wheels with five holes (in Russian they are usually called "windows" — окна) in the "disc" are not just "GAZ wheels", because Gorky Automobile Plant produced several types of wheels, but GAZ-AA 1.5-tonner (30 cwt in English units) wheels that were license copied from Ford Model AA ones.
The disc wheel without any holes is mentioned in the M-42 manual as GAZ-AA wheel, but I've never seen any photos of trucks with these wheels. They were installed only on some M1942 guns (with "extra long" L68 barrel). As far as wheels of the first type are not mentioned in the manual, I think they was installed because GAZ-AA wheels were more easily available at the front, whereas all those wheels had five lug fasteners (bolts or nuts, I'm not sure about the term) and so were theoretically interchangeable.
Anyway, both were not intended to be used on M1937 guns (with shorter L46 barrel) because the suspension of them was designed for smaller (overall tyre width 150 mm for GAZ-A vs. 175 mm for GAZ-AA, overall wheel diameter 790 mm vs. 870 mm) and lighter (~40 kg vs. 60 kg) spoked wheels from GAZ-A.

[Larry Hayward]

Thank you ain92

To understand you am I right in thinking that the 45mm AT guns with short barrels were not fitted with solid wheels when they were made in the factory - so these guns in the photos I posted are conversions by Soldiers in the field or by the museum as they could not get spoked wheels?

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

An image from EBay:

Sturm78