Fate of E-Battr 722
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Here some information on the 4 x 28 cm (E) K 5 in the sector Caen on 21-06-1944
Regards Jos
Regards Jos
- Attachments
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- Eisenbahn normandie 0.jpg (28.24 KiB) Viewed 2079 times
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Hi Jos,
Please excuse my ignorance but what is the document dated 21.6.44 that you posted showing?
Thanks,
Neil
Please excuse my ignorance but what is the document dated 21.6.44 that you posted showing?
Thanks,
Neil
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Don't mind Neil
These are the guns that were used on 21-06 in the region ( Abschnitt ) Caumont and Caen
the first two colums for the guns and the second two colums for the ammo rounds ???
Regards Jos
These are the guns that were used on 21-06 in the region ( Abschnitt ) Caumont and Caen
the first two colums for the guns and the second two colums for the ammo rounds ???
Regards Jos
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Ah I see Jos. So on 21.6.44 there were 4 x 28 cm (E) K 5 in the Caen sector and they fired 405 rounds on that day? To take another example on 21.6.44 there 228 leFH 18 in the Caumont sector and they fired 3,300 rounds on that day? How many of these reports do you have covering the Normandy battle? German artillery ammunition supply is always a topic of debate. Primary source data giving actual usage cannot be argued against!
Thanks very much,
Neil
Thanks very much,
Neil
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Hi Neil
I am not sure what the second two colums means , looks to "Bedarf f. 3 ??? to "
Regards Jos
I am not sure what the second two colums means , looks to "Bedarf f. 3 ??? to "
Regards Jos
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Hello
Looking at the documents it show that it is a list of artillerie and ammunition for a planned attack.
The list of ammo is for available ammo, not rounds fired. The Bedarf f. 3 ??? to seems to be "Bedarf f. 3 Ausstat to",
Should if i got it right "Bedarf f. 3 Ausstattungen to"
regards
stril
Looking at the documents it show that it is a list of artillerie and ammunition for a planned attack.
The list of ammo is for available ammo, not rounds fired. The Bedarf f. 3 ??? to seems to be "Bedarf f. 3 Ausstat to",
Should if i got it right "Bedarf f. 3 Ausstattungen to"
regards
stril
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Thanks Stril
That fits perfectly , this could be a list of guns that should be used in the projected German counter-attack .
Regards Jos
That fits perfectly , this could be a list of guns that should be used in the projected German counter-attack .
Regards Jos
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Jos,
Thank you for posted the document of 21.6.44.
I have also noted that they were only 12 x 15 cm sFH13(Sf.) left in the Caen area by that date.
Emmanuel
Thank you for posted the document of 21.6.44.
I have also noted that they were only 12 x 15 cm sFH13(Sf.) left in the Caen area by that date.
Emmanuel
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Hello
Here the unit of the 4 x 28 (E) K 5 , the E.A.A. 725
Info = Nara
Regards Jos
Here the unit of the 4 x 28 (E) K 5 , the E.A.A. 725
Info = Nara
Regards Jos
- Attachments
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- axis .jpg (27.62 KiB) Viewed 1970 times
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Thank you very much for sharing this document, Jos.
Emmanuel
Emmanuel
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Hi Emmanuel
Strange the 14.9 cm F.H. i.s.o. 15 cm F.H. on the list .
Regards Jos
Strange the 14.9 cm F.H. i.s.o. 15 cm F.H. on the list .
Regards Jos
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Jos,
According to the list of June 21, 1944 that you have posted before, it is for 14,9 cm sFH404(i). I think that the "14,9" notation was retained to prevent further confusion with the 15 cm K404(j) that also carried a "404" number.
This 15 cm K404(j) appears on two German lists (one posted by Erik E on 20 Oct 2006 at 14:17 and one posted by you afterwards) in the following thread as an ex-15 cm Kanone M.15/28 Skoda.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 88&start=0
Emmanuel
According to the list of June 21, 1944 that you have posted before, it is for 14,9 cm sFH404(i). I think that the "14,9" notation was retained to prevent further confusion with the 15 cm K404(j) that also carried a "404" number.
This 15 cm K404(j) appears on two German lists (one posted by Erik E on 20 Oct 2006 at 14:17 and one posted by you afterwards) in the following thread as an ex-15 cm Kanone M.15/28 Skoda.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 88&start=0
Emmanuel
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
Yes Emmanuel
That is a good option , I will try to find find some more documents .
Regards Jos
That is a good option , I will try to find find some more documents .
Regards Jos
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
I have found the following four pictures taken by a British officer at Vire on the (UK) national army museum’s website. They could actually be the same pictures as seen by Simon at the IWM. The gun is inspected by American soldiers and is clearly a 24 cm Theodor Bruno K(E), thus from E.722.Simon Trew wrote:[...]Photos of two guns from this battery can be found in the Imperial War Museum. B 8573-6 (inclusive) show gun number 919 084, photographed (according to the caption) on the railway at Villers-Bocage by a British Army photographer on 6 August. Photos B 8979-82 (inclusive) show gun number 519 080 photographed at Vire on 10 August.[...]
1)
http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-collection/ ... 3-63-19-27
2) The breech has been sabotaged in a similar fashion as the well-known gun captured at Torigny-sur-Vire:
http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-collection/ ... 3-63-19-28
3)
http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-collection/ ... 3-63-19-31
4) On this picture I think that we can actually distinguish two guns and in a different position as on the other pictures! The locomotive in the front looks pretty intact: could it be used to push the two guns together on the same tracks for clean-up?
The picture was definitely taken at Vire as the house on the background still exists today and is on the west side of the station, towards Granville (see below – from Google Street view – taken by Christopher Diblan and titled “Arrivée de Granville”/Arrival from Granville). It gives us an idea about the location of picture # 4 was taken..
http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-collection/ ... 3-63-19-24
Emmanuel
Re: Fate of E-Battr 722
After the pictures, here are some witness accounts mentioning a German railway gun at Vire. They are from a British veteran from the Royal Engineers, 246 Field Company, Brian Guy, who he wrote on some forums between 2003 and 2009.
“There was a huge German railway gun, firing from around Vire in Normandy. You could hear the shell coming for ages. And it made a wobbling sound as it approached. When it landed the side of the hill erupted. The hill we had to take, round the base were German Paras.
Very unpleasant. The Paras waited till we were all there, and then proceeded to bring down a massive stonk right over the top of us....nasty! Cowered in our hastily dug foxholes....”
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons-te ... -guns.html
“Yes I have seen it in operation. But if you want to hear a real wobble... for you can hear it! Then at Vire, there was huge German railway gun that hurled monster shells that erupted on the side of the hill we were heading for, as the leading unit. (The area held by Huber's Paratroopers, and we were on our own!) You could hear the shell coming for some time before it arrived, and the sound as it approached was a wobbling express train. Bloody great amounts of earth flew everywhere! BOOM!”
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons-te ... tar-3.html
“Near were we had harboured, there was a hill that looked down on the Enemy position, while far away at Vire, there was a "railway gun" a huge thing, it was too big to put on the road and when fired, it hurled huge shells at this hill, it was possible to hear it coming for some time before the mighty explosion occurred. A loud wobbling and whistling sound as the shell approached, it took some time before it arrived. Then, huge amounts of earth were blown sky high every time a shell landed.
http://www.ww2f.com/honor-service-valor ... er-12.html
“Yes a huge thing built on a special railway wagon, I do mean huge, the men that loaded it looked very smal alongside the thing, I did not think it that dangerous, we were in a field at the time watching the shells..
It took some time to load, so there was quite an interval between each shell. What I recall most of all, was from the side where we were, and before we went up the hill. you could gear it coming for what seemed an age, and it made a very loud wobbling sound, not like an ordinary shell, it just made this sound as though it was wobbling as it travelled through, when it did arrive, there was one hell of an explosion and huge eruption of earth
I thought it a very expensive and huge bit of machinery that served little purpose.”
http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/inde ... __st__2800
Emmanuel
“There was a huge German railway gun, firing from around Vire in Normandy. You could hear the shell coming for ages. And it made a wobbling sound as it approached. When it landed the side of the hill erupted. The hill we had to take, round the base were German Paras.
Very unpleasant. The Paras waited till we were all there, and then proceeded to bring down a massive stonk right over the top of us....nasty! Cowered in our hastily dug foxholes....”
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons-te ... -guns.html
“Yes I have seen it in operation. But if you want to hear a real wobble... for you can hear it! Then at Vire, there was huge German railway gun that hurled monster shells that erupted on the side of the hill we were heading for, as the leading unit. (The area held by Huber's Paratroopers, and we were on our own!) You could hear the shell coming for some time before it arrived, and the sound as it approached was a wobbling express train. Bloody great amounts of earth flew everywhere! BOOM!”
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons-te ... tar-3.html
“Near were we had harboured, there was a hill that looked down on the Enemy position, while far away at Vire, there was a "railway gun" a huge thing, it was too big to put on the road and when fired, it hurled huge shells at this hill, it was possible to hear it coming for some time before the mighty explosion occurred. A loud wobbling and whistling sound as the shell approached, it took some time before it arrived. Then, huge amounts of earth were blown sky high every time a shell landed.
http://www.ww2f.com/honor-service-valor ... er-12.html
“Yes a huge thing built on a special railway wagon, I do mean huge, the men that loaded it looked very smal alongside the thing, I did not think it that dangerous, we were in a field at the time watching the shells..
It took some time to load, so there was quite an interval between each shell. What I recall most of all, was from the side where we were, and before we went up the hill. you could gear it coming for what seemed an age, and it made a very loud wobbling sound, not like an ordinary shell, it just made this sound as though it was wobbling as it travelled through, when it did arrive, there was one hell of an explosion and huge eruption of earth
I thought it a very expensive and huge bit of machinery that served little purpose.”
http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/inde ... __st__2800
Emmanuel