new serie 600 felmabig

[Bunkerfreak]

Perhaps it is as simply as youre document say's Dirk, the regular regelbauten have the widely used regelbau-numbers (600- serie, 100-serie) and the locally build FA-variants have the roman numbers (X, II,...)

Sometimes it isnt bad to compare with WW1 predecessors, there they used shortcuts like "U" for Unterschlupf, "UTr" for Unterstand Truppen (Now they are called Gruppen and Doppelgruppenunterstände), "ZwStr" for ZwischenStreiche, flanking bunker,... etc.

As you see, In the Stellungsbau 1916, which are the first real regelbauten, they used shortcuts instead of numbers, perhaps this is performed too in the second world war for some bunker-series? and can the roman numbering from Dirk's document be correct and nothing strange at all...

Tom

[dirk Peeters]

by the beginning of this topic on 22 dec 2011 Moonraker (Etienne) made it clear there was a new series

that same day Moonraker (22 dec 2011) (Etienne) called already kleinstunterstand and kleinschartenstand
sadly the documents are missing here on axis
Hope to see them again

so in 2011 Etienne already mentioned Kleinstunterstand but even then no one used Kleinstunterstand II
Hope to see some new documents
Dirk

[dirk Peeters]

Thanks Tom
roman numbering .... Very intresting
so as i alreday mentioned Type II (2) is a 668 FM
Type X (10) is a 627 FM
if your are right Tom it means at least 10 i repeat ten types in this seies
We have found a lot now let's chase and see what this roman numbering gonna give us
looks like this topic is going to be a lively one i hope

Dirk

[Bunkerfreak]

I have the same problem in my head guys, i always wanted to resolve the entire regelbau study with one big list concerning all bunkertypes, but i fear this is not/never possible, as i learned recently in the westwall, we just need to indicate the Festungs-pionier-numbers/armeekorps-numbers/bauprogramm before the local type number?

For example from this week's thread; the Limess-programm bunker type 10a and the old type 10a for the regelbau 120, which are two completely diffent bunkers with the same old bunkernumber 10a, but build during other buildingperiods...

[Bunkerfreak]

I'm looking forward to youre results Dirk, i follow this thread closely!

succes!

[dirk Peeters]

We see clearly what the germans meant
You see colum "stand " with the name of the construction and then in red the column
R.B. Nr. which means Regelbau number
and under regelbau number stands the Regelbau 676 680 648 aso BUT also the Regelbau number II (2) et Regelbau number X (10)
which we must read as Tom says roman II and roman X
so we can call this series in Brest Type II and type X (roman chiffre) officially but only in Brest
No need to use Kleinstunterstand II , even the germans don t do it
Hope to find the types III , IV , V etc
Dirk

[moonraker]

hello guys,

I think we're still in the small early in this series. kleinstunterstand II relates to any variant ?? because belfra finding three 668 differ.
all 668 find a plusior copy and KVU,Pontrieux,Morlaix,Aber warc'k,Renan,Brest and Crozon.

I/ 668 command post with room karte and telephone,three enter
2/ 668 personnel
3/ 668 personne with tèphone and trink-wasser

Me belfra team

[Jihem]

Very interesting, Erwan,Dirk,Tom, Etienne. Happy to see Etienne post of 12/22/2011. Good research.

[moonraker]

so what the type kleinstunterstand II ?? we know just a 668 ! and only the 668 is a Unterstand Kleinst.

Me belfra

[Chazette]

and as Erwann found out the germans called the 668 in his region 668/40 as seen on his document which is german i don t think all 668 FM are called Kleinstunterstand (II)

No Dirk Erwann not said that
the document is french plan scoitch and no Regelbau on it
the wasser program AOK 1 said ONLY ONE 668 With Ib/677 -Bo 42/02) the other of the listing all the rectangles are empty ! NO BUILT

You base your theories on you to unverified data
have you found the 668/02 Bordeaux? the plan was it to you? it corresponds to scoitch you plan?
there is the real issues that advance the debate

[dirk Peeters]

AC we are talking here for the type name but for the Regelbau Number which is Tyoe II
on the german document from Erwann it is also written 668/40 that is for me reality maybe they are not constructed they are planned , as with our St Nazaire and Brest document
there are also types on the listings as build or planned
But for me it s intresting we have the plan (measured at the field at Brest) for the genuine Type II (type 2) as the germans called it officially
and we have also the Type X measured at Brest which is the 627FM which we can call now Type X (10)
But sorry
I ll go to germany for a couple of days
So i can t come back for a few days on the forum
Happy we found out with this series this local name Type II and Type X
Dirk

[Chazette]

logically here we can say II is a Kleinstunterstand (668FM) but don t say Kleinstunterstand II or we all gonna use this names in the future ( St.f.7,5cm Pak 626 for a normally 626) so II you can name is the type of a 668 FM
Dirk Why you said 668fm ????? because in Regelbauten Kleinsunterstand = 668, 674, 675 and 682
Why you make a choice of 668 ??
668 are not on the list !!!!

[dirk Peeters]

measured them in the StP in the Field ....
as we measured every bunker in the area of Pointe d espagnol etc
with deduction and research the Kleinstunterstand is a 668
is also written on 668 german documents
Take that with our field measurements and it is clear to see
here is german document

Dirk
Bye i m taking of to germany
Dirk

[Chazette]

a column of Festungmassig (ST) and a column of Feldmassig (FM) they don t mention the VF series here at all (and constructed heavily in this neighborhood as well in Brest)
is Normal no speak 502 (more here.... Tobruk.....
because this listing is a legend for a map

[dirk Peeters]

That s true
and with these maps we have found them