The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#1

Post by myt1prod » 11 Sep 2013, 16:09

Hello,

INTRODUCTION

Early september 2013 I've started a new topic called 'IGN-Quest for the reconstruction of the Dunkirk harbour'...
But due to the immense size of the nowadays Dunkirk harbour I quickly realised it would be impossible to fit all this information into one topic and still be able to have an overview of which location one's/I'm refering to.

So the past few days I've worked out a new approach to undertake my 'Quest for the reconstruction of the Dunkirk harbour';
- at first a new, straight forward, name :D : 'The Dunkirk Project'
- secondly, the creation of this topic: once past 'the introduction on the comprehension of the nowadays port', I will be using this topic only to post links to the most recent location/aerialphoto I'm studing. With each new link I will be posting on this topic I will also provide an updated version of the 'overall view map'. This map will alsways be the same and will be showing the entire area of the nowadays dunkirk harbour on which I will pinpoint the latest link. All information and overlays on the latest link (or previous ones which will also be indicated on this map) can thus be found by clicking the link.
- in a later fase - as research progresses - this topic will also be used to post updated overall views of the entire area based on new information.

This new approach can only work with your help;
So it would be much appreciated not to share any information on specific strongholds/locations in this topic but in the appropriate link/topic. Posts/comments on the harbour in its totality (the entire harbour), as also mentioned later in this introduction, are welcome and much appreciated. Thanks Ahead!


For a good comprehension of the location of certain strongholds (and the lack of strongholds in other locations) I guess it's necessary to have a closer look at the expantion and evolution of the harbour since the war up to the nowadays situation... therefore;

Introduction to the comprehension of the nowadays harbour


Although most of you know or can assume that this harbour has undergone large structural changes since the war, one (me included) cannot grasp the vastness of these expansions and their impact on the landscape without overlaying aerials of both eras. As the aerials on IGN.fr don't provide in an overall view of the (nowadays) harbour area, nore does it provide in aerials from 1944, I had to be content with aerials from 1949 (most German structures where still intact) and had to puzzle, twist and turn 20 aerials to come up with an accurate overall view of the area at time of the war (shortly after).

This first aerial is a nowadays view of the area we will be discussing in this topic (or the topic linked to a specific location on this map). Throughout this topic I will always be using this map to indicate the newest location and the appropriate link to the overlays of the newly marked location. Now it's still blank, by the end of my research/quest it should be full of white squares.
inleiding01.jpg
Mainly my research will continue anti-clockwise starting west of the 'Ecluse Watier' (Stp. Eduard), following the coastline along the 'new harbour' uptill Grand-Fort-Phillipe, returning inland towards the eastern side of the 'old harbour', continueing to the sea to end up again at the Stp. Eduard (which should be the last topic in my Quest).

As I sometimes get bored quite quickly it is possible that I sideskip this anti-clockwise trajectory... the first link to a topic in my Quest is already an example of this behaviour :D . Although we're not there yet (at topic 1), I already put it up here to show you the way I will be marking a new 'locationlink'... so this map will be updated every time, showing more and more white squares, the link will be posted underneath the newly updated map.
inleiding02.jpg
...
Last edited by myt1prod on 11 Sep 2013, 17:19, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#2

Post by myt1prod » 11 Sep 2013, 16:42

...

This is my 1949 IGN-overlay of the area for which I used 20 (!) seperate IGN-aerials and although I had to stretch, rotate and skew the diffent aerials one at a time and make them fit in any direction, I can proudly say that every road is connected and none of the structures/silhouets distorted... I guess a 90 to 95% accuracy. When I overlay the nowadays (1 image) aerial it fitted straight away without having to distort the original image (only at the bottom part of the nowadays aerial I have some small inaccuracies, at most a few metres, which I can't get to fit the 1949 overall view. This could be due to the perspective/angles/lenses both aerials were taken in/from/with at the time.)

Notice the harbour was contained to the immediate proximity of the Dunkirk city centre and the neighboring towns which are now part of the 'new harbour' were still small rural villages with 'seaview' and little to no industry. A nice example is the town of 'St.-Pol sûr Mer' (meaning 'St. Paul at sea/coast'); since the expansion of the port this can hardly be called a seaside village.
inleiding03.jpg
Following is the same aerial but in which I have highlighted 'the old water', meaning the water (docks, canals, ...) present at time of the war.
inleiding04.jpg
Again the same aerial showing the 'old water' (purple) and marked in red the waters which have disappeared since 1949 uptill 2013. (later in this topic I will be posting some close-ups from the 'old harbour' which will show much more detail, but for now let's stick to the overall view of the area)
inleiding05.jpg
...


User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#3

Post by myt1prod » 11 Sep 2013, 17:07

...

Adding some blue; showing the 'new water', newly dug bassins, docks and canals since 1949. To enable you to still see the original shoreline I've made the blue transparent... although you can already see what will become clear in the next image...
inleiding06.jpg
... now I have added in yellow all 'new land' gained on the sea and beaches (due to the tidalworking of a beach I didn't include the beaches to the mainlandborder of 1949; this border is set at the dunes). The blue is now set at 100% so you can clearly see it's interaction with the purple of the 'old water' which now coulours dark blue; in this way you can see very detailed the many changes the 'old harbour' has undergone (close-ups will follow).
inleiding07.jpg
When applied to the nowadays aerial, it looks a bit like this. For those looking for bunkers I would advise not to go and search in the yellow and red marked areas because it would be a waste of time.
inleiding08.jpg
... (more to come later today)

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 19238
Joined: 21 Jun 2004, 14:21
Location: middelburg

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#4

Post by jopaerya » 11 Sep 2013, 21:04

Hello Jean

My compliments great work , nice to see the changes during the years .

Regards Jos

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#5

Post by myt1prod » 11 Sep 2013, 21:20

...

and finally an overall view of the area showing only the expansions since 1949. To have a better comprehension of the 'new land' the yellow is now transparent.
inleiding09.jpg

The 'old harbour' in close-up

A close-up of my 1949 IGN aerialcollage showing the 'old harbour' near the city centre of Dunkirk. Again I have highlighted the 'old water' in purple which shows the dock's and canals the way they were during the war.
inleiding10.jpg
inleiding10.jpg (342.87 KiB) Viewed 668 times
Next an overall view of the 'old harbour' showing all changes in the area since 1949 (extensions, terminated canals, ...)

Notice the irregular shape of some of the walls of the docks at time of 1949. As these docks where heavily bombarded during the war it is my opinion that these irregular outlines of the docks show the damage as a result of these bombardments. It seems likely these outlines where straight before the war began and possibly followed about the same outline as shown on the nowadays docks.
inleiding11.jpg
inleiding11.jpg (371.31 KiB) Viewed 668 times
...

User avatar
moonraker
Member
Posts: 2642
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 23:06
Location: normandie.french

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#6

Post by moonraker » 11 Sep 2013, 21:25

hello jean,

I think you managed to stall the photos because the area is flat.
@ but Very great job !! ........us expect to next ->

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#7

Post by myt1prod » 11 Sep 2013, 21:31

...

The same overview but this time applied to the nowadays aerial
inleiding12.jpg
inleiding12.jpg (388.21 KiB) Viewed 665 times
Again the nowadays aerial showing only the expansions since 1949

(notice - as I mentioned earlier - how the overlay fits exactly for the upper part of the image but shows small inaccuracies for the bottom part; As much as I tried but I can't succeed in fitting this bottom part of the nowadays aerial to the outlines of the 1949 one whitout distorting the image... although the inaccuracies are not more then just a few metres. This is possibly due to differences in perspective/angle/used lenses for both aerials)
inleiding13.jpg
inleiding13.jpg (373.07 KiB) Viewed 665 times
I hope this introduction on the comprehension of the nowadays harbour could be of your interest and will help us in understanding the location and function of certain strongholds in regard to their nowadays position.

Greetz
Jean

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#8

Post by myt1prod » 16 Sep 2013, 13:59

... at the moment very busy on several locations of the Dunkirk harbour, so results should follow in a few days.
In the meanwhile a bit of showing off :lol: with my new desktopimage i've made...
... as it is sometimes very boring and requires a lot of concentration to overlay historic aerials with nowadays aerials, to set my mind and eyes to ease, I make stuff like this;
desktopimage2.jpg

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#9

Post by myt1prod » 31 Aug 2014, 14:23

(Finally some time to advance on the subject... thanks to a rainy august.)

I've started off this subject with a general look at the changes in and around Dunkirk due to the ever growing harbour of Dunkirk, which reaches as far as Gravelines nowadays. Eventually this topic (and 'subtopics') will cover this entire region in search of dissapeared or still existing Stützpunkte and Wiederstandsneste. I've also already did an introduction on the 'old harbour' by means of overlays. The 'old harbour' covers the extend of the harbour at time of WW2; at that time it was still restricted to the city of Dunkirk itself and the nearby community of St.-Pol.

As the 'old harbour' (situation during WW2) was of great importance to the Germans, the entire harbour-area and city of Dunkirk was designated as a 'Festung' (fortified city) by the Germans.

So a nice way to advance on this topic is to kick off with the Festung Dünkirchen itself before advancing to all the strongholds inside the 'new harbour' and around (outside the Festung) Dunkirk itself.


The FESTUNG DUNKIRCHEN
Festung Dunkirchen on 1949 aerial.jpg
This map is based on a original German map, which I applied on my composed aerial of the different 1949-aerials found on IGN.fr.
Abschnitt Seefront
1 Erfurt
2 Erich
3 WestmolenFuss (A) mit Richthofen
4 Westmolenkopf
5 Ostmolenkopf
6 Römer
7 Udet
8 Eduard
9 Müncheberg
10 Anton
11 OstmolenFuss
12 Toni (C) mit Graf
13 Sophie

Abschnitt Ost
14 Werft
15 Richard
16 Paula
17 Nanni-Otto (D) mit Pritter (*)
18 Max
19 Lützow

Abschnitt Süd
20 Bär
21 Ludwig
22 Karl
23 Ida
24 Hans
25 Oesau

Hafenabschnitt West
26 Jofa (*)
27 Fritz
28 Emil

Abschnitt Olraffinerie
29 Cäsar-Dora (B) mit Ihlefeld (*)
30 Enzian
31 Batterie (MKB) St.-Pol

Festungskern
32 Schleuseninsel – Zitadelle / Qu (*)
33 Marine-Park
34 Riegelstellung

(*) EDITED with the help of Jos.

(...)
Last edited by myt1prod on 31 Aug 2014, 20:38, edited 3 times in total.

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 19238
Joined: 21 Jun 2004, 14:21
Location: middelburg

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#10

Post by jopaerya » 31 Aug 2014, 18:54

Great work Jean

17 Nanni-Otto mit Pritter
29 Cäsar-Dora mit Ihlefeld
32 Schleuseninsel Zitadelle/ Qu

Festungskern

Regards Jos
Last edited by jopaerya on 31 Aug 2014, 19:00, edited 3 times in total.

CNOCK
Member
Posts: 1205
Joined: 08 May 2005, 17:06
Location: BELGIUM

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#11

Post by CNOCK » 31 Aug 2014, 18:55

Hallo Jean,


well done!

cheers,

Eddy

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#12

Post by myt1prod » 31 Aug 2014, 19:54

thanks Jos!
I forgot to ask for someone to fill in the missing names... but you've noticed the blank spots and did so without asking.
Could you also give a conclusive answer on the N°26?? Is it 'Jofa', 'Jota' or 'Jora'? This way I can add all your additions and corrections.

Thanks Eddy!
And if i'm recalling well I need to thank you twice, because it was you who provided me with the german map of the Festung... Sorry if I recall wrong; in any case, thanks to whoever provided me with this map at the time.

Jean

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 19238
Joined: 21 Jun 2004, 14:21
Location: middelburg

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#13

Post by jopaerya » 31 Aug 2014, 20:10

I think it's called Jofa

pierrot
Member
Posts: 494
Joined: 28 Mar 2007, 20:33
Location: Brussels

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#14

Post by pierrot » 01 Sep 2014, 06:49

Hello Jean,

All the Luftwaffe strongpoints were named according the name of a Luftwaffe 's Ace: Richthofen, Udet, Graf, Muncheberg, Bär, Oesau, Ihlefeld and Priller, not Pritter. Josef Priller was a famous Luftwaffe ace.

We find the same way of giving name to the Luftwaffe strongpoints in Belgium, with a few other names : Galland, Mac-Gollob, Mölders, Baumbach, Wick, Marseille, von Müller.

Gr.

Pierrot

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: The Dunkirk Project (IGN-Quest): summary + introduction

#15

Post by myt1prod » 01 Sep 2014, 19:34

Thanks Pierrot for this information
(Sadly I can't edit my previous post where it says 'pritter' instead of 'priller'... but I'll keep it in mind when discussing this specific location)
I already wondered about the origins of the FlaKstützpunkte... and indeed about all names used in and around Dunkirk are repeated in Belgium.

The FlaKstützpunkt Krabbe (just outside the festung Dunkirk) had a double name and was also called 'Wick'... Is there a reason for such a double name or do we see it elsewhere?

Greetz
Jean

Post Reply

Return to “Fortifications, Artillery, & Rockets”