Maschinenstände regional types

[moonraker]

Hi,

Examples of two 2m thick 'Fortress' types from the Channel Islands.

The 1st is thought to be a 'V' Type and one can be found on Jersey at Naval Stp. Butts (Les Landes Common) and is located behind the Naval direction and range finding Tower MP3. While a 2nd can be found on Guernsey at Naval Stp. Groβhugel (La Grande Hougue). The Guernsey example is a mirror image of the Jersey one (shown below) and also has 2 intergrated Tobruks.


Regards,
Malcolm

Hi malcon
you are picture of bunker V ?? the bunker seems to inspire the type 619.I thin the room 36 must be for the recharge batterys ?
and room 30 for agregat or engine ??

best regards

[myt1prod]

Or the one at Koksijde... do we find it elsewhere??

SK machine Koksijde.jpg

This one also has some kind of emplacement on it's roof (perhaps for a scheinwerfer for the airfield it served at the time???)
see also:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 3&start=15 (more material will be uploaded - one day - to this topic concerning the possible 2 SK constructions to be found there)

Jean

photo's have been added on this MachineBunker on: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4#p1855884

[S_haule]

Hi,

Examples of two 2m thick 'Fortress' types from the Channel Islands.

The 1st is thought to be a 'V' Type and one can be found on Jersey at Naval Stp. Butts (Les Landes Common) and is located behind the Naval direction and range finding Tower MP3. While a 2nd can be found on Guernsey at Naval Stp. Groβhugel (La Grande Hougue). The Guernsey example is a mirror image of the Jersey one (shown below) and also has 2 intergrated Tobruks.

The second photo (posted on this forum by 'MNO KI') shows the layout of a unique (?) generator/personnel bunker located at Westburg (Pleinmont Point).

They were all used to power a Freya or Gema Seetakt.

Regards,
Malcolm

Dear Friends,

The second model is probably a kind of type. I have underline this point in the past. Please compare the layout of Westburg bunker with the layout of Cap de La Hève bunker used for a FuMO 51 radar. (my plan used by SES here : http://www.gyges.dk/kriegsmarine_radar_bunkers.htm). In Cap de La Hève, the thickness of the wall is 1,5 m. The FuMO 51 was installed in an extra-concrete basement stuck to the bunker. And just near the bunker was situated a Seetakt. The FuMO 51 was erected after the Seetakt according to some German pictures from ECPAD.

Best regards from Le Havre,

Sébastien Haule

[S_haule]

Dear Friends,

Please have a look on this extract of an aerial picture - dated October 6th, 1944 - with the Maschinenstand of Cap de La Hève. Have also a look on the picture with the Seetakt on the background.

Best regards from Le Havre,

Sébastien Haule

[moonraker]

thank for the reply sebastien.

[dirk Peeters]

Thanks for your help Sebatien Haule , Malcolm and the others for placing plans and pictures
I m not at home
maybe tonight yes
But i can garantee Eax that the type you don t believe that it s a machinestand >>> it is 100 procent a maschinenstand
with air intakes , exhaust , all is therebut as usual it s better to go and have a look yourself or post some proofs that this one is no maschinenstand at all .... Etienne has said it already it s an old design from the beginning of the war
if you find one exactly the same where is it ? post then your plan and pictures of the one you know probably in Lorient
Tom i m gonna post the plan afterwards of the one you placed your picture
it serves for electricity for your unfinished souterrain there
Dirk

[Bunkerfreak]

Hello,

Nice info, thanks! So this unfinished souterrain was perhaps in use? perhaps it is an old Pre-WW2-era tunnel which is re-used?
Here some pics of that DAMN tunnel (yess i say "damn"!) Because its really dangerous inside, the second time we searched for it, i've been stuck in the entrance for 20 minutes.

If you see this, your actually standing on top of the tunnel ;-)

Afterwards you need to search for something like this (picture date 2004)

Then you need to crawl inside, its pretty steep diagonal for some 4 - 5 meters and you can only acces on youre stummy.

[Bunkerfreak]

Interiour pictures of this 3th tunnel we found on MKB Lindemann.

Interiour pictures of this 3th tunnel we found on MKB Lindemann.

Best regards
Tom

[dirk Peeters]

for EAX
you are saying that it isn t true for the machinestand (as you did more times with topics we open from time to time)
Will you please once give your evidences for this? it easy to say we are wrong and then say nothing at all
or given no proof at all what you are saying
Please give your proof here evreybody will be pleased if we advance this topic

Thanks if you do it
Dirk

[Eax-E]

Hello,
I did not say it's not true, I say I disagree.
You can find similar ones in Mo81 or Lo23.
Why I don't think it's a machinenstand :
-Output for cables are from a very small diameter (~3cm)
-The 70 entrance is not adapted to enter a generator
-In Lo23 the SHM noticed that the generator was in the old fort, not in the octogonal bunker. I know they are not masters at measuring but I trust them if they took time to notice that.
-In Lo23 this bunker is located alone with the 667 (365) and 1694. I can't understand why would the generator of the position would have been in such place, apart from the central zone where there are many bunkers needing eletrical power. I really think it's the shelter for the 5 cm KwK gunners.

Regards.

[dirk Peeters]

Thanks Arthur
now we can argue here
Mo 81 i cant place the plan
I don t know who measured it arthur and dont want another battle for it
but that one has cable entrance right beside the door (25 on 25 cm opening
there are 4 pipes leading to the oustside for cables (each 10 cm
one ventilation an d one for the exhaust are placed at the other sides
Lo 23
I haven t visited this one from inside so about that one i know nothing
it can be used for pesonnel this one . If you can prove it it means we have two functions at least for this type

anothet thing without starting an argue
The 1694 you mention isn t at all the type found in the 15 army (there it is known as a fundament for a 5 cm KWK with two entrances and only three niches ... )
In Lo 23 there is a genuine VF 9
for the 667 there it is one who is closed so didn t have the inside details but it has a rare option this 667 , at the rear it is constructed with an observation platform
Thanks for your help
Dirk

[dirk Peeters]

some of this little ones have three chimneys in the roof ... some have two at the side , there are even here some differences
Dirk

[Bunkerfreak]

-In Lo23 this bunker is located alone with the 667 (365) and 1694. I can't understand why would the generator of the position would have been in such place, apart from the central zone where there are many bunkers needing eletrical power. I really think it's the shelter for the 5 cm KwK gunners.

I think there are, mostly in the KVA D2 sector, several bunkers which are designed with an additional room for machines. like the 612/680 SK which can been found there...

Why a single engine for a simple canon, its a good question... Perhaps to generate power for most isolated places so that the ventilator can work independently? but does an 667 have a ventilator? i never noticed this in that type...

[dirk Peeters]

For Va 300 we have two different models of the 4 Maschinestande there (for one plan look at page 1 of this topic)
the other type will be placed soon after my trip to danemark
but it looks that there s going a lot to be changed at Va 300 for most of the bunkers
strange that no one has ever seen this , but neither did i
This is my 5 th trip to this batterie (Va 300)to find this out and now we can be certain for the plans of these wonderfull batterie
Hope to make also a nice layout plan of this batterie

[moonraker]

-In Lo23 this bunker is located alone with the 667 (365) and 1694. I can't understand why would the generator of the position would have been in such place, apart from the central zone where there are many bunkers needing eletrical power. I really think it's the shelter for the 5 cm KwK gunners.

I think there are, mostly in the KVA D2 sector, several bunkers which are designed with an additional room for machines. like the 612/680 SK which can been found there...

Why a single engine for a simple canon, its a good question... Perhaps to generate power for most isolated places so that the ventilator can work independently? but does an 667 have a ventilator? i never noticed this in that type...

hi tom
the 667 is good provided the ventilator for the gun.back the gun center the kampfraum.