Shrapnel & Canister

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
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toque
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012, 23:56

Shrapnel & Canister

#1

Post by toque » 16 Oct 2014, 08:54

Has anyone come across reference to the use of shrapnel or canister in WW2?

WW1 vintage guns would certainly have had shrapnel ammunition in store, but was it ever issued or used in WW2? The website jaegerplatoon.com makes oblique reference to shrapnel, but nothing definate.

I see that some WW2 Soviet guns are listed as having canister rounds available, and have seen a reference to these been available for immediate use. Given that the guns concerned were quite modern, I find it hard to believe that the ammunition would have continued to be given space (and presumably still to be made, once the war had started), if it was of no use.

Given that the Germans captured vast quantities of foreign equipment and were given to reusing it, did they make use of captured shrapnel and canister rounds? (ideal for repelling Soviet human wave attacks I would have thought, but I find no references).

Canister was used in Vietnam by US forces. Perhaps that was a result of a rethink after their experiences in Korea, following a hiatus in WW2?

gambadier
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Re: Shrapnel & Canister

#2

Post by gambadier » 16 Oct 2014, 11:22

Cannister was used by UK tanks after WW2, not sure about during it. AFAIK it wasn't used by UK artillery after the Boer War, ie it was never produced for 18-pr, etc.


Ondrej Filip
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Re: Shrapnel & Canister

#3

Post by Ondrej Filip » 16 Oct 2014, 21:37

Canister shells were developed by Škoda for the 4,7 fortress gun Mk. 36 (later 4,7 cm Festungpak 36(t)). The first series of 178 208 shells was orderer by Ministry of defence at 1938 year. After the Munich treaty whole order has been cancelled. The Germans performed any test of the shells, but never decided to order them.

The shell was made of paper, with the 12g lead pellets, fixed in resin.
Attachments
shell.jpg

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JTV
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Re: Shrapnel & Canister

#4

Post by JTV » 17 Oct 2014, 06:39

toque wrote: WW1 vintage guns would certainly have had shrapnel ammunition in store, but was it ever issued or used in WW2? The website jaegerplatoon.com makes oblique reference to shrapnel, but nothing definate.
Jaegerplatoon.net is my website, so maybe bittle clarification would be necessary. When it comes to Finnish situation I expressed by doubt concerning use of old shrapnel ammunition even if it was existing in ammunition stockpiles because:
1. The bits and pieces that I have been able to found about ammunition spending for each ammunition type suggest that shpranel either was not used or it was only rarely used by Finnish field artillery. These bits and pieces sort of info involve old 19th century Russian guns without recoil systems.
2. Sources suggest that Finnish Army considered shpranel to be somewhat ineffective (possibly due to terrain conditions - this ammunition type does not really work that well if fired to heavily forested terrain?). Also notice that Finnish military did not intentionally acquire shrapnel ammunition during World War 2 - not even when it would have been available for free (with old French 19th century guns without recoil systems).
3. All shrapnel ammunition in Finnish inventory seems to have originated from World War 1 era or earlier.
Hence I would not necessarily make wide-spread international conclusions just on that.

Only Finnish instances with use of shrapnel that come to mind are 152-mm coastal artillery batteries, which used also shrapnel ammunition (in addition of more commonly used HE-shells) against enemy infantry marching on ice in several occations.

Jarkko

toque
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Re: Shrapnel & Canister

#5

Post by toque » 17 Oct 2014, 19:40

Thanks ondrej filip - that the Germans have the option, but don't bother, is quite revealing. I wonder what they did with all the captured French shrapnel? They must have captured French gas shells too.

Thanks Jarkko - that's very interesting. Superb website by the way - I appreciate the immense amount of effort that must have gone into creating it.

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