Vf LAG
Vf LAG
Hello,
We discussed this bunkertype already in several topics, but up till now there is no specific topic related to this bunkertype.
I'd like to make plans and 3D models of every Vf LAG that ever existed, or still exists, in order to be able to compare them with each other.
The first one I'm trying to recreate is one of the two Vf LAG of the Stp. Detlev (Malo-les-Bains, Dunkerque, AOK 15 KVA B). This one can be considered as a SondernKonstruction amongst the Vf LAG bunkers. It's a combination of the Vf LAG design with a Baustärke B possible SK construction.
At first I did so souly based on the plan with measurements in the book "Mythe ou réalité" by Chazette. Next to the fact that there are very few measurements given in the book which doesn't make it easy to recreate the bunker, I quickly noticed that the measurements given contain errors. In a second attempt, of which the temporary result below, I based my 3D model on avery detailled IGN.fr 1948 aerial in combination with the standardmeasurements for about every known Vf LAG and where needed falling back on the measurements given in the book by Chazette. (Btw; this is no negative critic on the book, just mentioning my finds and 'modus operandi')
... this gives this plan;
this plan still contains errors, but I guess i'm pretty close to the original... Therefore I'm asking you if anyone can provide me with aditional information on this specific Vf LAG, additional (correct) measurements and with some luck some photomaterial could help me out a lot.
You'll also notice I placed a PAK 7,5cm canon in the bunker, which was the canontype used in both Vf LAG of the Stp. Detlev according to "Mythe ou réalité". The model is on the same scale as the bunker and created by ben D. at SketchUp warehouse.
If this was in fact the canon used in this bunker, I think the bunker provided very little protection against frontal enemy fire as the opening of the Scharte leaves to much open space around the shield of the canon. What do you think or know on the subject??
Which I find strange is that the walls and roof of the LAG-part of the bunker measure not more than 70cm... So we can not call this one a 'Vf' LAG then? But just 'LAG'-bunker?
The other part of the bunker has walls variating between 2,23cm and 2,65cm (that is if the inside measurements given by Chazette's book are correct). For the roof I have no measurements, but logically they would be in relation to the with of the walls and as the aerial shows a much more pronounced shadow for this part of the bunker it is shure that it is higher than the rooflevel of the LAG-part of the bunker... so for my model I chose a roof of 2m thick concrete.
Anyone any idea on the artillery used in this Baustärke B-part of the bunker? The Scharte had to be imense and a very impressive sight! My idea is that a heavy machinegun would be operated in here? (I tried to install a festungsPAK 4,7cm - my original thought - but there is just no space enough )
All in all... a very strange combination, yet a very nice and impressive bunker.
Thanks ahead
Jean
We discussed this bunkertype already in several topics, but up till now there is no specific topic related to this bunkertype.
I'd like to make plans and 3D models of every Vf LAG that ever existed, or still exists, in order to be able to compare them with each other.
The first one I'm trying to recreate is one of the two Vf LAG of the Stp. Detlev (Malo-les-Bains, Dunkerque, AOK 15 KVA B). This one can be considered as a SondernKonstruction amongst the Vf LAG bunkers. It's a combination of the Vf LAG design with a Baustärke B possible SK construction.
At first I did so souly based on the plan with measurements in the book "Mythe ou réalité" by Chazette. Next to the fact that there are very few measurements given in the book which doesn't make it easy to recreate the bunker, I quickly noticed that the measurements given contain errors. In a second attempt, of which the temporary result below, I based my 3D model on avery detailled IGN.fr 1948 aerial in combination with the standardmeasurements for about every known Vf LAG and where needed falling back on the measurements given in the book by Chazette. (Btw; this is no negative critic on the book, just mentioning my finds and 'modus operandi')
... this gives this plan;
this plan still contains errors, but I guess i'm pretty close to the original... Therefore I'm asking you if anyone can provide me with aditional information on this specific Vf LAG, additional (correct) measurements and with some luck some photomaterial could help me out a lot.
You'll also notice I placed a PAK 7,5cm canon in the bunker, which was the canontype used in both Vf LAG of the Stp. Detlev according to "Mythe ou réalité". The model is on the same scale as the bunker and created by ben D. at SketchUp warehouse.
If this was in fact the canon used in this bunker, I think the bunker provided very little protection against frontal enemy fire as the opening of the Scharte leaves to much open space around the shield of the canon. What do you think or know on the subject??
Which I find strange is that the walls and roof of the LAG-part of the bunker measure not more than 70cm... So we can not call this one a 'Vf' LAG then? But just 'LAG'-bunker?
The other part of the bunker has walls variating between 2,23cm and 2,65cm (that is if the inside measurements given by Chazette's book are correct). For the roof I have no measurements, but logically they would be in relation to the with of the walls and as the aerial shows a much more pronounced shadow for this part of the bunker it is shure that it is higher than the rooflevel of the LAG-part of the bunker... so for my model I chose a roof of 2m thick concrete.
Anyone any idea on the artillery used in this Baustärke B-part of the bunker? The Scharte had to be imense and a very impressive sight! My idea is that a heavy machinegun would be operated in here? (I tried to install a festungsPAK 4,7cm - my original thought - but there is just no space enough )
All in all... a very strange combination, yet a very nice and impressive bunker.
Thanks ahead
Jean
Re: Vf LAG
hi jean,
we all measures,of memory the roof is 1 mèter in the vf LAG.
This is vf lag
because the serie VF 0.40m at 1.0m and no ventil for the gaz of guns.
there is also in some sector 1.5m
we all measures,of memory the roof is 1 mèter in the vf LAG.
This is vf lag
because the serie VF 0.40m at 1.0m and no ventil for the gaz of guns.
there is also in some sector 1.5m
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Re: Vf LAG
One of several same types of LAG bunkers at the beach of Zoutelande according to BRV?
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- dirk Peeters
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Re: Vf LAG
just found in Knokke one of these VF LAG in 40 cm thick concrete instead of 1 meter
Re: Vf LAG
Hey Dirk,
2 of them were also build inside the Stp Wrangel in St-Idesbald/De Panne: One still exists (see my plan), the other one destroyed in 1955 (see plan of demolition contractor). They have walls of 60cm.
Gr.
Pierrot
2 of them were also build inside the Stp Wrangel in St-Idesbald/De Panne: One still exists (see my plan), the other one destroyed in 1955 (see plan of demolition contractor). They have walls of 60cm.
Gr.
Pierrot
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Vf LAG
so even here there are different thickness
Maybe we can do a list of these also?
15 KVA B
2 x StP Eduard
1 x StP Luise
1 x StP Leo
1 x StP Leo (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Brunhilde (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Bernard
1 x StP Beate (variant)
1 x StP August
1 x StP Anna
2 x StP Detlev
i m sure i forgot some
I ll check later
Dirk
Maybe we can do a list of these also?
15 KVA B
2 x StP Eduard
1 x StP Luise
1 x StP Leo
1 x StP Leo (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Brunhilde (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Bernard
1 x StP Beate (variant)
1 x StP August
1 x StP Anna
2 x StP Detlev
i m sure i forgot some
I ll check later
Dirk
Re: Vf LAG
hello pierrot
seem be the similaire type of the base,but insert the tobruk is vf8.
Me belfra-team
seem be the similaire type of the base,but insert the tobruk is vf8.
Me belfra-team
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- dirk Peeters
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Re: Vf LAG
maybe two series
the germans have one without Tobruk on the german plan and a model with Tobruk , also on the general german plan
the ringstand (as far i i measured them ( we only measured 9 altogheter) is sometimes a Bf 58c but like etienne said it seems some are Vf8
one is of an unidentified type Tobruk
Dirk
the germans have one without Tobruk on the german plan and a model with Tobruk , also on the general german plan
the ringstand (as far i i measured them ( we only measured 9 altogheter) is sometimes a Bf 58c but like etienne said it seems some are Vf8
one is of an unidentified type Tobruk
Dirk
Last edited by dirk Peeters on 02 Jul 2016, 10:48, edited 1 time in total.
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Vf LAG
error of me
It seems most are Tobruks Vf8
i will search further
new list
15 KVA A1
X x Zoutelande (which StP ? )
15 KVA A3
2 x StP Wrangel
15 KVA B
2 x StP Eduard
1 x StP Luise
1 x StP Leo
1 x StP Leo (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Brunhilde (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Bernard
1 x StP Beate (variant)
1 x StP August
1 x StP Anna
2 x StP Detlev
It seems most are Tobruks Vf8
i will search further
new list
15 KVA A1
X x Zoutelande (which StP ? )
15 KVA A3
2 x StP Wrangel
15 KVA B
2 x StP Eduard
1 x StP Luise
1 x StP Leo
1 x StP Leo (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Brunhilde (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Bernard
1 x StP Beate (variant)
1 x StP August
1 x StP Anna
2 x StP Detlev
Re: Vf LAG
Hello,
some additions;
15 KVA A1
X x Zoutelande (which StP ? )
15 KVA A3
2 x StP Wrangel
1 x StP Von Rundstedt
15 KVA B
2 x StP Eduard
1 x StP Luise
1 x StP Leo
1 x StP Leo (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Brunhilde (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Bernard
1 x StP Beate (variant)
1 x StP Adolf
1 x StP August
1 x StP Anna
2 x StP Detlev
The one at Stp Adolf had the ringstand on the frontside and seems to have a double ammostorage opposit the ringstand (other side of the Kampfraum) .... AND it also had an enlarged backside with a sideways entrance !!
some additions;
15 KVA A1
X x Zoutelande (which StP ? )
15 KVA A3
2 x StP Wrangel
1 x StP Von Rundstedt
15 KVA B
2 x StP Eduard
1 x StP Luise
1 x StP Leo
1 x StP Leo (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Brunhilde (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Bernard
1 x StP Beate (variant)
1 x StP Adolf
1 x StP August
1 x StP Anna
2 x StP Detlev
The one at Stp Adolf had the ringstand on the frontside and seems to have a double ammostorage opposit the ringstand (other side of the Kampfraum) .... AND it also had an enlarged backside with a sideways entrance !!
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Vf LAG
Adolf looks also a modified one , but heavily modified
Thanks Jean
nice list
Thanks Jean
nice list
Re: Vf LAG
For Holland A1 2 x in Stp. Lohengrin ( Zoutelande ) and also a VF schartenstand in the Sudwall .
Also a few in A 2 Belgium .
Regards Jos
Also a few in A 2 Belgium .
Regards Jos
Re: Vf LAG
found 3 more of them
1 in between - where used to be - fort Mardyck and Stp Furth (perhaps even Furth itself or one of the smaller strongholds here (as the entire terrain has changed due to the expansion of the harbour it's hard to pin-point without doing a large overlay of the region)
2 x StP Dorian
>>> both have the ringstand one one side of the Kampfraum and a single ammo storage on the other side of the Kampfraum
1 in between - where used to be - fort Mardyck and Stp Furth (perhaps even Furth itself or one of the smaller strongholds here (as the entire terrain has changed due to the expansion of the harbour it's hard to pin-point without doing a large overlay of the region)
2 x StP Dorian
>>> both have the ringstand one one side of the Kampfraum and a single ammo storage on the other side of the Kampfraum
Re: Vf LAG
Hello everybody,
For Belgium:
1 x WN Tobruk, Knokke
2 x Stp Roon, Middelkerke
2 x Stp Wrangel, De Panne
1 x Stp von Rundstedt
Gr.
Pierrot
For Belgium:
1 x WN Tobruk, Knokke
2 x Stp Roon, Middelkerke
2 x Stp Wrangel, De Panne
1 x Stp von Rundstedt
Gr.
Pierrot
Re: Vf LAG
and one more in KVA2 Stp Gneisenau, KVA2 Nieuwvliet
Gr.
Pierrot
Gr.
Pierrot