”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

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Lars Bertelsen
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”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#1

Post by Lars Bertelsen » 06 Aug 2015, 22:33

Hello

The lines A, B, C and D (from the Baltic Sea and southwards) are well documented.
(German names are used here:)
A-Linie = Lötzen – Warschau etc.
B-Linie = Weichsel – Thorn – Krakau etc.
C-Linie = Posen etc.
D-Linie = Pommern-Stellung – Oder-Warthe-Bogen – Breslau etc.

According to some sources, there was also an E-Linie = Oder – Neisse etc.
Is there any documentation for this?

greetings
lars

herring
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#2

Post by herring » 10 Aug 2015, 18:32

That's a good point - for sure E line can be seen in quite old article form 60's by Tadeusz Rawski, and apparently he was basing on German archives accessible in that time in Polish Army.
In fact I couldn't find an original documents with E-line present. I've also seen the name Nibelungen stellung.


Lars Bertelsen
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#3

Post by Lars Bertelsen » 12 Aug 2015, 22:37

Thanks herring.
I saw the E-Linie on a map published in this forum a couple of years ago, but it was not an original wartime one. I was wondering because I could not find any other information about it. Maybe the latest information from early 1945 is just not available in the internet.
greetings lars

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TH
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#4

Post by TH » 12 Aug 2015, 23:00

I could only find the e-Stellung on a map drawn by J. Sadowski, based on the one from T. Rawski that herring mentioned, which in turn seems to be based on an official "Ausbau des deutschen Ostraumes" map (OKH-Stellungen). I've got a version from late 1944, but there the westernmost line is the d-Stellung.

herring
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#5

Post by herring » 13 Aug 2015, 01:49

Rawski's map doesn't seem to be based on one map - I guess it was a mix of different maps from different organisational levels. You can find there some lines missing, you can see some not existing lines (planned), or some in wrong positions. It also treats all German fortifications 1935-45 as one system, what seems to be wrong.

herring
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#6

Post by herring » 13 Aug 2015, 01:52

And one more question - have you met in any official document name "OKH-stellungen" as reffering to "Ausbau des deutschen Ostraumes"? I think that name "OKH-stellung" for "letter lines" is misinterpretation.

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TH
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#7

Post by TH » 13 Aug 2015, 20:18

herring wrote:And one more question - have you met in any official document name "OKH-stellungen" as reffering to "Ausbau des deutschen Ostraumes"? I think that name "OKH-stellung" for "letter lines" is misinterpretation.
Now that you mention it, no actually. I must have picked up the name in Polish literature and websites.

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TH
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#8

Post by TH » 22 Dec 2015, 18:06

I've found a connection between A-Stellung and OKH-Stellung in the KTB of AOK 9 (July 1944).
okh.jpg
okh.jpg (43.23 KiB) Viewed 1169 times

herring
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#9

Post by herring » 22 Dec 2015, 23:54

Very interesting.

forttravel
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#10

Post by forttravel » 07 Sep 2016, 20:07

I found that extract from NARA document in anther but don't have a link. Do you know guys roll data for it or maybe you have more pages?
Attachments
2la4oxe.jpg

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TH
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#11

Post by TH » 21 Sep 2016, 23:52

herring wrote:And one more question - have you met in any official document name "OKH-stellungen" as reffering to "Ausbau des deutschen Ostraumes"? I think that name "OKH-stellung" for "letter lines" is misinterpretation.
I've found more evidence (GenStdH, 06.02.1945):
okh-abc.png
okh-abc.png (164.83 KiB) Viewed 854 times
According to the document, "OKH-Stellungen" are the defence lines constructed under the responsibility of the OKH.
These are set in contrast to the additional lines constructed under the command of armies and army groups.

herring
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#12

Post by herring » 22 Sep 2016, 17:30

Please have a look at the page from instruction H.Dv.g.21 from 3.6.1937, point c. What you think?
Possibly it's a type of stellung (defined well before 2ww), not a name for exact location in space/ time. Just as Mob.Stellung.
Attachments
xxxx0002[1].jpg

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schwarzermai
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#13

Post by schwarzermai » 22 Sep 2016, 17:56

forttravel wrote:I found that extract from NARA document in anther but don't have a link. Do you know guys roll data for it
edit:
it is
T 78 R 269
starting at Frame 6217797

Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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TH
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#14

Post by TH » 24 Sep 2016, 14:46

herring wrote:Please have a look at the page from instruction H.Dv.g.21 from 3.6.1937, point c. What you think?
Possibly it's a type of stellung (defined well before 2ww), not a name for exact location in space/ time. Just as Mob.Stellung.
Yes I agree, the term O.K.H.-Stellung is definitely not limited to the letter lines. It seems to be a category along Arm.- and Mob.-Stellung that predates the war. For example, some Stellungen along the Czech border were O.K.H.-Stellungen in 1937.

Can you post the pages with point 4a and 4b?

herring
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Re: ”Letter lines” in Poland and Germany 1944-45

#15

Post by herring » 25 Sep 2016, 01:38

Sorry,I don't have these pages. Quite by accident I have only one page...

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