Heat round for 90/53 italian gun

[Noble 7]

Hello.

I have a question:

So, I was looking for the penetration's values of the Italian 90/53 gun. I first checked "Wikipedia" and "Wikipedia-tank ". Both said that the 90/53 has a penetration of 200 mm @2000 meters with HEAT shells "pronto effetto ". But dude this is....impressive! Compared to the 88', who has 90 mm @2000 meters With HEAT shell, this is ,as in say, very effective. If this data is True, that mean that the 90/53 is the most powerful AT gun of ww2.

My quetion is: is it true? Is the 90/53 can penetrate 200 mm at 2000 meters ? And can you tell me more on this ammunition?

Thanks !

[Denniss]

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=22346
mentions a book claiming 150mm penetration for italian 75mm Heat round. Unless they re-invented the wheel both penetration figures are hard to believe.

[Ondrej Filip]

Hi Noble. Why you talk about the distance? The penetration effect of the HEAT round does not depends at velocity. It is the same for every distance.

German penetration data yould be taken at the angle (for example the 90 mm for the 88 shell is the penetration for the 30° angle from the vertical axe). You need to know, if Italians does not mean zero angle.

[Denniss]

Both penetration claims for the HEAT rounds sound implausible considering the available tech of the early 1940s.

[Noble 7]

Thanks you for your responses.

-is the 90/53 can use AA shells VS tanks ?

-It is written that the "head" of the 90/53 shells is made with "cones grenades.". Is that means that these shells have the same amount of explosives of a hand grenade?

(I'm so Sorry for my bad english: this isnt my native language)

[Dili]

I am not aware of an EP round for 90/53.

90/53 was an high velocity gun inappropriate for EP rounds that had blunt aero form. One of these rounds in a 90/53 reduces substantially the practical range. That said i will not be surprised if Italians tested them.

Besides the EP note that 90/53 was a more powerful gun than the "normal" 88 so everything equal it should penetrate more with a same equivalent round.

From my data:
The 75mm EP round is said to penetrate 70mm

the 105mm EP 100mm at 60º (the AP round was capable of 80mm at 60º at 1km fired from 105/28 artillery gun)

the 90mm AP(not EP) i have read from 100 to 150mm penetration, since in performance depends on round energy and angle of impact it is probable both values are true but different range and or impact angle.

[Dili]

Cone grenades - do you have the original wording? - i never heard of that, could mean pre-fragmentation? Italians had some aeronautical anti infantry bombs and grenades with that.

Yes the 90/53 can use the AA round against tanks.

[Noble 7]

This is a copy of the italian Wikipedia/traduce in english:

"The cones grenade with fuze R40 could be loaded with 1 charge, 2nd charge or reduced charge, while the cones grenade fuze Mod 41 could be loaded in 1st or 2nd charge. The use of cones grenade Mod 36 and 36R was for the anti-aircraft fire, that of cones grenade IO40 and R40 was on anti-landing operation as the drilling template was used to throw against armored targets (ships, and tanks). [1] The ammunition they were kept in wooden boxes containing three cones I project a total weight of 68 kg."

[Dili]

Google translation is a disaster in this case . Cartocci granata means that the round includes the propellant, so does not need a bag or bags like in heavier artillery.

[Noble 7]

Thank you a lot !

Last question: do you know the filler weight for the AP round of the 90/53, and, is the AP shell has the same penetration as the AA shell and He shell ?

[Dili]

Unfortunately i only have the filler for HE AA round: 1kg.

Check this for other info https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/re ... -Italy.pdf

I don't know of data available for penetration of AA round. The AP round was longer and was also heavier so the difference should be substantial.