5 cm KwK used in fortifications

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jopaerya
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#76

Post by jopaerya » 07 Sep 2013, 20:15

Yes Kurt

That could be the reason :idea:

Regards Jos

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M19 MADMAL
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#77

Post by M19 MADMAL » 07 Sep 2013, 23:22

Hi,

Below are 2 photos of a 5cm KwK 39 which is said to be a rare design which was not proceded with and only a few were produced (???).

3 such examples were to be found in the Channel Islands with 1 at Wn. La Motte A on Jersey on the emplacement also shown below and 2 on Guernsey which were both mounted in Type L414A (the only 2 on the Atlantikwall!) found at Wn Gabelsberg and Wn. Perleburg.

Jos has posted in the past that the mounting may be a French naval mount for the 7.5cm 97(f)

Regards,
Malcolm :milwink:
Attachments
phpVrCiEDPM.jpg
phpmQnPRpPM.jpg
img141.jpg
The emplacement for the 5cm KwK 39 at Wn. La Motte A
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/


Lars Bertelsen
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#78

Post by Lars Bertelsen » 08 Sep 2013, 11:46

Hi Malcolm
Thanks for sharing these photos.
I guess that this is the first version of the Sockellafette for 5 cm KwK, designed in the summer of 1942 by reusing captured French pedestal mounts. Shortly later, it was decided to use the new Behelfssockellafette for this purpose.
Interesting to see that any of the ex-French mounts with 5 cm KwK were actually used.

greetings
lars

jopaerya
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#79

Post by jopaerya » 08 Sep 2013, 11:53

Here one at the ex Museum at Dieppe .

Regards Jos
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5 cm kwk pivot.jpg

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Manuferey
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#80

Post by Manuferey » 08 Sep 2013, 16:13

I’m not convinced that the mountings are ex-French. For instance, the conical mounting of the « canon G de 75 mm Mle 1897 » was not as wide. Conical mountings were widely used before WW2 by many nations for small caliber coastal guns or even anti-aircraft guns as it is a simple but robust mounting design. It is possible that the Germans designed a specific conical mounting for the 5 cm KwK .

Separately, all the pictures above with the conical mounting show L/60 guns i.e. with the muzzle brake (removed in case of the gun at Dieppe but the threaded portion is still visible). Therefore, it is difficult to deduct that this mounting preceded the most widely know mounting and could not be a simplified mounting that appeared later or locally. It would be interesting to find a picture of a L/42 gun on a conical mounting.

Emmanuel

Clive Mortimore
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#81

Post by Clive Mortimore » 08 Sep 2013, 19:37

Was the L/60 used as a naval weapon on board small craft? If so could that be the origin of this type of mounting?

Clive
Clive

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moonraker
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#82

Post by moonraker » 08 Sep 2013, 20:09

hi,
the similair 50 kwk yet in place,but destroy for the rust !!

Image

Image

jopaerya
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#83

Post by jopaerya » 08 Sep 2013, 20:15

Nice picture Etienne :thumbsup:

Regards Jos

Lars Bertelsen
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#84

Post by Lars Bertelsen » 09 Sep 2013, 06:25

Hello
No it is right, it doesn’t really look like the old French pedestal mount. And If it is a former 7.5 cm gun mount, it is strange that the 5 cm gum is fitted with the muzzle brake. This shouldn’t be necessary.
It reminds of an old pedestal mount for a ship gun, and also a bit of the (probably never build) Sockellafette Ib. But the latter was fitted with a square base plate.
greetings
lars

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AvB
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#85

Post by AvB » 09 Oct 2013, 16:01

5cm KwK in the Atlantikwall? Source: ebay.
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2013-09-18-068.jpg

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AvB
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#86

Post by AvB » 12 Oct 2013, 20:40

Can anyone ID this as a 5cm KwK? Must be a 667?

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Eax-E
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#87

Post by Eax-E » 12 Oct 2013, 21:12

Probably yes, there can't be a 2 m thick wall but rather a 1.5 m compared with the men.

jopaerya
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#88

Post by jopaerya » 24 Mar 2014, 20:58

A 5 cm KwK near Calais , photo is from Ebay .

Regards Jos
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5 cm Kwk 3 calais 57.JPG

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Bunkerfreak
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#89

Post by Bunkerfreak » 25 Mar 2014, 21:05

For the open emplacements, does anyone know the name or number for the design? some days ago i saw a german document here on the forum with both the names "Tobrukstand" and "KwK-stand" written on it about the buildings that are built on that location.

Could the name "KwK-stand" be a somewhat official name for this bunkertype? some sources say VF600v, but i've never seen that before on any german document...

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dirk Peeters
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Re: INFO: 5 cm KwK used in fortifications

#90

Post by dirk Peeters » 25 Mar 2014, 23:50

some KwK sands are VF 9 but not all and Vf600v was something invented and it s not german at all
Dirk

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