Dora Railway gun question

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schwarzermai
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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#211

Post by schwarzermai » 11 Nov 2016, 11:15

zero_88 wrote:21cm Morser 18 gun of the Eastern front in this pictures, also were used in attack against Sevastopol.
i think 2nd Pic is an 14,5cm K. 405 (f) or 15.5 cm K. 420 (f)
zero_88 wrote:17cm Kanone 18 in Sevastopol siege.
definitiv 21 cm mrs. 18

but: why this pictures in this thread??????????????

Uwe
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ChristopherPerrien
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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#212

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 11 Nov 2016, 15:07

Nice work Zero.


biercemountain
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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#213

Post by biercemountain » 13 Nov 2016, 15:59

Thanks for all the photos zero_88. I'm especially glad to see all the reference on the support vehicles such as the munitions wagons and locomotives.

Paul

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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#214

Post by biercemountain » 21 Nov 2016, 23:30

Does anyone know who was responsible for supplying the ammunition for these weapons? It must have been a herculean task and I can't imagine that they made large stocks of them.

Paul

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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#215

Post by EPOCH3 » 23 Nov 2016, 18:56

Hi - the following pictures are fairly poor quality as they were apparently digitized from some old video tape. The pictures were dated circa 1990 and I do not know when the original film was taken (my guess is mid 1970s - being low grade TV broadcast quality). They are some of the last pictures of at least one of Dora's railway trucks prior to it being scrapped in Eastern Europe.

Happy everyday!
Greg
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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#216

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 23 Nov 2016, 22:48

Hi,

it's very interesting.
Do you know where in eastern Europe?
I guess Eastern Germany?
Do You see any mark of TV program/broadcast

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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#217

Post by EPOCH3 » 02 Dec 2016, 22:11

Hi Andrzej, sorry no - no markings of any kind. The photos only show the rasterization of the image like when older multi-media equipment would be used to convert PAL to NTSC etc and then to print (pretty poor quality).

btw - thanks for the pictures - I have originals of most of them although much larger (1:5 and 1:10 scale)
Regards

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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#218

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 04 Dec 2016, 04:35

Thanks for the info. It looks that Dora's trucks were the last reamians of this gun? Does it has any sound-what lanuage Wersion is it?
Ps in Lesany/Czech is an ammo wagon (4 axis) which mostlikely were attached to Dora.

Drawings-ok I thought so.

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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#219

Post by RuPo » 04 Dec 2016, 17:10

For sale, Dora shell.
g,Ruud
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ChristopherPerrien
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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#220

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 06 Dec 2016, 05:10

Poor condition, at least the slob spiff clean it up. :lol:
Shined up,a Dora casing is quite impressive. Lotto Brasso/Never Dull there.
Should have made off with a few casings myself. :milsmile: "No Brass, No Ammo, Sergeant!"
Though our casings were stainless steel

Here is one.https://www.google.com/search?q=dora+sh ... O6_m40M%3A
80cm_K_E__case.jpg

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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#221

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 06 Dec 2016, 20:39

Oldie but goldie :milwink:

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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#222

Post by biercemountain » 11 Feb 2017, 03:06

I recently got Steven Zaloga's "Railway Guns of World War II" and was somewhat surprised to read about the poor accuracy of Dora in action at Sevastapol. Everything I'd ever read before made me think the gun was effective if incredibly cumbersome. The picture painted in this new book is of a weapon that was only successful because of the tremendous destruction that even a miss could inflict on a target. Mr. Zaloga mentions an error of 300 meters being the average on the first day of shooting which was eventually reduced to 235 meters on subsequent days.

This goes a long way to explaining why it was only used operational this one time. It's bad enough that it took so much time and manpower to emplace but when you add the fact that it was hard to hit anything with it it's no wonder why it never saw action again.

Paul

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schwarzermai
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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#223

Post by schwarzermai » 11 Feb 2017, 14:14

Hi Paul, It's all relative. The target area was not exactly a point, it was a surface of 100 x 100 meters

and It was enough that some shot hits only a few meters next to the middle of the target to destroy the primary

you can find the Measurements of shots here

Eisenbahngeschütz DORA. Das größte Geschütz aller Zeiten
(1979) by Gerhard Taube


uwe
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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#224

Post by jopaerya » 04 Jun 2017, 09:26

Photo's from the same place as page 6 of this topic from Ebay , Regards Jos
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Re: Dora Railway gun question

#225

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 04 Jun 2017, 17:45

zero_88 wrote:Now let's see Schwerer Gustav.

Now Gustav after getting out of the Essen factory was deployed to Sevastopol, but the gun itself could not go on two tracks the gun actually was transported like a normal train the two half's of the gun were used separately in transportation mod, the gun base turrets or struts (gun holders) were transported on a flatbed, the gun barrel was also transported in the back by two cars and all other devices and special railway were also stored in special wagons. The gun was carried splitted in longitudinal each frame as a separate car for tunnels to traverse. It also carried flat beds for the huge cranes that assembled the gun.
Heavy Artillery Unit (E) 672 was reorganized to support Schwerer Gustav. There were lots of railway cars from personnel carriers: C4ue, Personenwagen C3itr pr 18, to Kartuschwagen, Kesselwagen (Austauschbauart), R Stuttgart, Ommr Linz, SSyms, G München, Munitionszubringerwagen, SSy Köln, and lots of FLAK. And covers like mesh, curtains, wood branches.
Alright , we have "Heavy Artillery Unit (E) 672" for Gustav. Does anyone have any records/sources of the TOO,( Table of organization} or numerical strength of this unit. At the same what unit was assigned to operate "Dora" ? What was its TOO?

All the pictures of various equipment, and records of different barrels being tested, and of sites being prepped at the same time does not quite make two operation guns(IMO). How many "barrels" existed? I am counting 2 regular and a long barrel. Correct? (might be a shorted barrel too, so possibly 4). The 2 regular barrels obviously were "proofed" so one out firing at the Russians , while the other barrel was being "proofed" is plausible, and also that other firing positions for "Gustave/Dora" were being prepared while the unit was firing at Sevastopol. I will note a few things. Somebody help sort this out. Some info from wiki(no sources there), and then other things.

In February 1942, Heavy Artillery Unit (E) 672 reorganised and went on the march, and Schwerer Gustav began its long ride to the Crimea. The train carrying the gun was of 25 cars, a total length of 1.5 kilometres (0.9 mi). The gun reached the Perekop Isthmus in early March 1942, where it was held until early April. The Germans built a special railway spur line to the Simferopol-Sevastopol railway 16 kilometres (9.9 mi) north of the target. At the end of the spur, they built four semi-circular tracks especially for the Gustav to traverse. Outer tracks were required for the cranes that assembled Gustav.

The siege of Sevastopol was the gun's first combat test. Installation began in early May, and by 5 June the gun was ready to fire


OK , Gustave was at Sevastopol ti;; July 4 then :
Gustav had fired 48 rounds and worn out its original barrel, which had already fired around 250 rounds during testing and development. The gun was fitted with the spare barrel and the original was sent back to Krupp's factory in Essen for relining.

The gun was then dismantled and moved to the northern part of the eastern front, where an attack was planned on Leningrad. The gun was placed 30 km (18.6 mi) from the city near the railway station of Taizy. The gun was fully operational when the attack was cancelled. The gun then spent the winter of 1942/43 near Leningrad.

Now Dora.
"Dora was the second gun produced. It was deployed briefly against Stalingrad, where the gun arrived at its emplacement 15 kilometres (9.3 mi) to the west of the city sometime in mid-August 1942. It was ready to fire on 13 September. It was withdrawn when Soviet encirclement threatened. "

??? , Please note Gustave took from March to June to be prepared to fire at Sevastopol.

Please notice where the Germans were at the time. They reach the outskirts during the last week of August. There is no way a Gustave or Dora position could have been prepared for the gun to be ready to fired by September 13. It took 2 month to prepare the Sevastopol position and then another moth to month and a half to emplace the gun. It is not goingto happen they could do all of this outside Stalingrad in 2-3 weeks (becuase that is when the German got in range to place Gustave) when it took 3-4 months at Sevastopol.

Just give the name of Dora arty unit and it strength at the same time as Gustav and its Heavy Artillery Unit (E) 672 :wink:

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