captured French mortars GrW.203(f), GrW.225(f), GrW.278(f)
- Kriegsberichter
- Member
- Posts: 260
- Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 22:09
- Location: Holland
captured French mortars GrW.203(f), GrW.225(f), GrW.278(f)
I am looking for photographs, drawings and info about the French mortars in Grman service. I am especialy looking for the following models:-
Lance Grenades de 50 mm Modele 37, by the Germans known as 5cm Granatwerfer 203 (f)
Mortier de 60 mm Modele 1935, by the germans known as 6cm Granatwerfer 225 (f)
Mortier Brandt de 81 mm Modele 27/31, by the germans known as 8.14 cm Granatwerfer 278 (f)
Lance Grenades de 50 mm Modele 37, by the Germans known as 5cm Granatwerfer 203 (f)
Mortier de 60 mm Modele 1935, by the germans known as 6cm Granatwerfer 225 (f)
Mortier Brandt de 81 mm Modele 27/31, by the germans known as 8.14 cm Granatwerfer 278 (f)
- David Lehmann
- Member
- Posts: 2863
- Joined: 01 Apr 2002, 11:50
- Location: France
Mortier de 50mm Mle1937 (Brandt)
The 50mm Mle1937 mortar was issued in 1939 to replace the French rifle grenade (VB launcher) in use at the platoon level. Few saw action in the infantry in 1940. They were only really issued to the Vichy army. This mortar The Germans used this exceedingly light weapon as the 5cm Granatenwerfer 203(f).
Type : Light mortar
Caliber : 50 mm
Barrel length : 415 mm
Weight in action : 3.65 kg
Elevation : 45° (fixed)
Traverse : 8°
Rate of fire : 20-25 rpm
Ammunitions :
HE shell
Shell weight : 0.435 kg
Maximum range : 695 m
V° : 70 m/s
Mortier de 60mm Mle1935 (Brandt)
The 60mm Mle1935 was one of the many products of the Edgar Brandt design bureau and it entered in French service in 1937. It became in the USA the 60mm M1 mortar (and from that the M2 and M19). The French had 4940 60mm Mle1935 mortars in service in 1940. Usually there were 96 shells immediately at disposal in the mortar trailer (the crew could carry 42 shells), 54 more in the accompanying trailer/truck at the company level and 50 more shells at the regimental level for a total of 200 HE shells per mortar in a French 1940 infantry regiment. The Chinese copied it as the Type 31 with a slightly shorter barrel. The Germans used it under the name 6cm Granatenwerfer 225(f).
Type : Light mortar
Crew : 1 NCO + 4 men (+ 1 driver)
Caliber : 60 mm
Barrel length : 725 mm
Weight in action : 19.7 kg
Elevation : 45° - 83°
Traverse : depending from the elevation (11° at 45° elevation, 13.5° at 60° elevation and 20.5° at 75° elevation)
Rate of fire : 20-25 rpm
Ammunitions :
FA Mle1935 HE/fragmentation (with V8-I or 21/28B Mle1935 fuze)
Shell weight : 1.33 kg (160 g explosive)
Maximum range : 1000 m (the army manual mention the use up to 1000m but some sources indicate 1700 m. The minimum range is 100 m)
V° : 158 m/s
Mortier de 81mm Mle1927/1931 (Brandt)
The 81mm mortar produced by the French Brandt firm became a 'classic' design of its era and was copied or licence-built by almost every army in Europe and elsewhere (Austria, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Finland, Romania –built under license by Voina -, Germany - 8.14cm GrW 278(f) and 278/1(f) -, Italy - 81/14 modello 35 -, Japan - 81mm Type 3 -, Yugoslavia - 8.1cm MWM 31/38 Kragvjewac -, Netherlands (built by HIH-Siderius in Rotterdam), Poland - wz.31 -, USA - 81mm mortar M1 -, USSR - 82mm model 1936 -). It remains to this day the epitome of conventional mortar design. In 1940, the French had over 8000 in service in two main versions (L/15.6 and L/13.7). Usually there were 48 HE shells immediately at disposal in the mortar trailer, 68 HE + 12 smoke shells in the accompanying ammunition trailer and 12 HE + 10 smoke at the company level and each regiment had also 30 'GC' shell (GC = grande capacité = higher explosive content). Therefore each 81mm mortar in a French 1940 infantry regiment had a total of 134 HE, 3-4 'GC' HE, 36 smoke shells and a number of illuminating shells.
Type : Medium mortar
Crew : 1 NCO + 5 men (+ 1 driver)
Caliber : 81.4 mm
Barrel length : 1267.5mm
Weight in action : 58.5kg (18.5kg barrel, 18kg bipod, 1.5kg sight, 20.5kg base plate)
Elevation : 45° - 85°
Traverse : depending from the elevation (8° - 12°)
Rate of fire : 20 rpm (up to 30 rpm in intense fire with a trained crew)
Ammunitions :
FA Mle1924/27 HE shell
Shell weight : 3.310 kg (400g explosive)
Maximum range : 2850m
V° : 174 m/s
FA Mle1932 HE shell
Shell weight : 3.345 kg (530g explosive)
Maximum range : 2850m
V° : 174 m/s
FA Mle1935 'GC' (GC = grande capacité = high capacity) heavy HE shell
Shell weight : 6.845 kg (2.400kg explosive)
Maximum range : 1200 m
V° : 158 m/s
FA Mle1924/27 or Mle1932 smoke shell
Shell weight : 3.310-3.345 kg (225g smoke component)
Maximum range : 2850m
V° : 174 m/s
FA Mle1924/27 or Mle1932 illuminating shell
Shell weight : 0.850-1.000 kg (with or without parachute)
David
The 50mm Mle1937 mortar was issued in 1939 to replace the French rifle grenade (VB launcher) in use at the platoon level. Few saw action in the infantry in 1940. They were only really issued to the Vichy army. This mortar The Germans used this exceedingly light weapon as the 5cm Granatenwerfer 203(f).
Type : Light mortar
Caliber : 50 mm
Barrel length : 415 mm
Weight in action : 3.65 kg
Elevation : 45° (fixed)
Traverse : 8°
Rate of fire : 20-25 rpm
Ammunitions :
HE shell
Shell weight : 0.435 kg
Maximum range : 695 m
V° : 70 m/s
Mortier de 60mm Mle1935 (Brandt)
The 60mm Mle1935 was one of the many products of the Edgar Brandt design bureau and it entered in French service in 1937. It became in the USA the 60mm M1 mortar (and from that the M2 and M19). The French had 4940 60mm Mle1935 mortars in service in 1940. Usually there were 96 shells immediately at disposal in the mortar trailer (the crew could carry 42 shells), 54 more in the accompanying trailer/truck at the company level and 50 more shells at the regimental level for a total of 200 HE shells per mortar in a French 1940 infantry regiment. The Chinese copied it as the Type 31 with a slightly shorter barrel. The Germans used it under the name 6cm Granatenwerfer 225(f).
Type : Light mortar
Crew : 1 NCO + 4 men (+ 1 driver)
Caliber : 60 mm
Barrel length : 725 mm
Weight in action : 19.7 kg
Elevation : 45° - 83°
Traverse : depending from the elevation (11° at 45° elevation, 13.5° at 60° elevation and 20.5° at 75° elevation)
Rate of fire : 20-25 rpm
Ammunitions :
FA Mle1935 HE/fragmentation (with V8-I or 21/28B Mle1935 fuze)
Shell weight : 1.33 kg (160 g explosive)
Maximum range : 1000 m (the army manual mention the use up to 1000m but some sources indicate 1700 m. The minimum range is 100 m)
V° : 158 m/s
Mortier de 81mm Mle1927/1931 (Brandt)
The 81mm mortar produced by the French Brandt firm became a 'classic' design of its era and was copied or licence-built by almost every army in Europe and elsewhere (Austria, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Finland, Romania –built under license by Voina -, Germany - 8.14cm GrW 278(f) and 278/1(f) -, Italy - 81/14 modello 35 -, Japan - 81mm Type 3 -, Yugoslavia - 8.1cm MWM 31/38 Kragvjewac -, Netherlands (built by HIH-Siderius in Rotterdam), Poland - wz.31 -, USA - 81mm mortar M1 -, USSR - 82mm model 1936 -). It remains to this day the epitome of conventional mortar design. In 1940, the French had over 8000 in service in two main versions (L/15.6 and L/13.7). Usually there were 48 HE shells immediately at disposal in the mortar trailer, 68 HE + 12 smoke shells in the accompanying ammunition trailer and 12 HE + 10 smoke at the company level and each regiment had also 30 'GC' shell (GC = grande capacité = higher explosive content). Therefore each 81mm mortar in a French 1940 infantry regiment had a total of 134 HE, 3-4 'GC' HE, 36 smoke shells and a number of illuminating shells.
Type : Medium mortar
Crew : 1 NCO + 5 men (+ 1 driver)
Caliber : 81.4 mm
Barrel length : 1267.5mm
Weight in action : 58.5kg (18.5kg barrel, 18kg bipod, 1.5kg sight, 20.5kg base plate)
Elevation : 45° - 85°
Traverse : depending from the elevation (8° - 12°)
Rate of fire : 20 rpm (up to 30 rpm in intense fire with a trained crew)
Ammunitions :
FA Mle1924/27 HE shell
Shell weight : 3.310 kg (400g explosive)
Maximum range : 2850m
V° : 174 m/s
FA Mle1932 HE shell
Shell weight : 3.345 kg (530g explosive)
Maximum range : 2850m
V° : 174 m/s
FA Mle1935 'GC' (GC = grande capacité = high capacity) heavy HE shell
Shell weight : 6.845 kg (2.400kg explosive)
Maximum range : 1200 m
V° : 158 m/s
FA Mle1924/27 or Mle1932 smoke shell
Shell weight : 3.310-3.345 kg (225g smoke component)
Maximum range : 2850m
V° : 174 m/s
FA Mle1924/27 or Mle1932 illuminating shell
Shell weight : 0.850-1.000 kg (with or without parachute)
Best regards,Accuracy of the 81mm Mle1927/31 mortar : (French wartime manual)
• 8m x 17m square at 460m range
• 9m x 32m square at 995m range
• 17m x 35m square at 1730m range
• 32m x 42m square at 2060m range
David
- Attachments
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- 81mm Brandt mortar.jpg (30.29 KiB) Viewed 9518 times
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- 60mm Brandt mortar.jpg (149.32 KiB) Viewed 9528 times
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- 50mm Brandt mortar.jpg (112.27 KiB) Viewed 9846 times
- Kriegsberichter
- Member
- Posts: 260
- Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 22:09
- Location: Holland
- David Lehmann
- Member
- Posts: 2863
- Joined: 01 Apr 2002, 11:50
- Location: France
Re: captured French mortars GrW.203(f), GrW.225(f), GrW.278(f)
Hello All
Here a few photo's of the 6 cm Granatwerfer 225 (f) .
Photo's = Ebay.de
Regards Jos
Here a few photo's of the 6 cm Granatwerfer 225 (f) .
Photo's = Ebay.de
Regards Jos
- Attachments
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- 6 cm mortier 225 (f).jpg (130.12 KiB) Viewed 8654 times
Re: captured French mortars GrW.203(f), GrW.225(f), GrW.278(f)
Hello
On this picture a other photo of the 6 cm Granatwerfer 225 (f) from Ebay.de
Regards Jos
On this picture a other photo of the 6 cm Granatwerfer 225 (f) from Ebay.de
Regards Jos
- Attachments
-
- 6 cm Granatwerfer 225 (f).jpg (163.27 KiB) Viewed 7933 times
Re: captured French mortars GrW.203(f), GrW.225(f), GrW.278(
Hello
here a picture (ebay origin)
The shell is a Brandt great capacity shell
http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/798/1080p.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.fr/Foto-Technik-WH-Sold ... _500wt_933
regards
here a picture (ebay origin)
The shell is a Brandt great capacity shell
http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/798/1080p.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.fr/Foto-Technik-WH-Sold ... _500wt_933
regards
Re: captured French mortars GrW.203(f), GrW.225(f), GrW.278(
Does anybody know what the weight of explosive filler was in the 0.435kg HE mortar bomb fired by the GrW.203(f)?
Thanks,
Neil
Thanks,
Neil
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- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: 11 Jun 2018, 04:28
- Location: Canada
Re: captured French mortars GrW.203(f), GrW.225(f), GrW.278(f)
Was the 50mm a personal weapon or a team weapon? What's the line between a grenade launcher and a mortar here?