Use of Panzerfausts against infantry?

[Cult Icon]

I have read of several combat accounts (Spaeter's GD III) of German troops in 1945 using vast quantities of panzerfausts to eliminate infantry. There are combat actions where the fausts are literally used up by the cartload by individual men. eg "I fired 76 panzerfausts in this operation.."

This is news to me. Does anybody know anything else about this?

[Michael Kenny]

I know the PIAT was used for just such tasks and its lack of a back-blast made it ideal for street fighting.

[ChristopherPerrien]

I have heard panzerfausts were useful for knocking down/blowing holes in walls and buildings/fortifications so infantry fire could be used against those inside. No specific sources/stories come to mind as to where to locate them.

Although, if you are playing old "Squad Leader" , you can use a panzerfaust against a wooden building, and if successful , it negates the +2 wooden building protection against subsequent fire groups in that phase. The panzerfaust does not inflict any casualties by itself. - Useless information, to fire your imagination

Chris

[TomV]

I can't imagen a Panzerfaust being used effectively versus infantry. It's strength VS tanks was due to it using a shaped charge. This is a purely kinetic weapon which is great for penetrating tanks. But if you use it in the open, most of this is contained to a very local area around the impact.

[tom!]

Hi.

In some publications "Splitterringe" (splinter rings) for Panzerfaust are mentioned. These rings should be attached to a PzFst generating splinters on detonation. But there are no reports of actual use.

There were also projects for Special anti-inantry PzFsts like"Schrapnellfaust" or Infanteriefaus" but afaik they never left design stage.

Yours

tom!

[StefanSiverud]

This is a purely kinetic weapon which is great for penetrating tanks.

Quite the opposite, actually.

As for using it against infantry in city fighting, I see no reason why you wouldn't. Aside from the plasma stream going forward, the explosion overpressure can in itself be harmful, not to mention fragments of the warhead being thrown around. It should be no less dangerous than a Stielhandgranate and with a far greater range at that.

[Eax-E]

Hello Gentelmens,

A. Beevor mentioned in his book about the battle of Berlin the use of Panzerfäuste by "tank hunter units" against walls in order to breach them and to open ways to curculate across the different buildings.
Given that we can't exclude the use of PzFst against infantry thanks to its blast power, as StefanSiverund.

Best regards

[toque]

When does the hollow charge ignite? If on contact (as with the side of a vehicle or building), then how will it ignite when fired against an infantryman?

[Ingsoc75]

Hello Gentelmens,

A. Beevor mentioned in his book about the battle of Berlin the use of Panzerfäuste by "tank hunter units" against walls in order to breach them and to open ways to curculate across the different buildings.
Given that we can't exclude the use of PzFst against infantry thanks to its blast power, as StefanSiverund.

Best regards

I think Beevor also mentions that Soviet soldiers would use captured Panzerfausts in attempts to open safes!

[Dwight Pruitt]

I can't imagen a Panzerfaust being used effectively versus infantry. It's strength VS tanks was due to it using a shaped charge. This is a purely kinetic weapon which is great for penetrating tanks. But if you use it in the open, most of this is contained to a very local area around the impact.

Shaped Charge munitions, ie panzerfaust, RPG, HEAT etc. are not kinetic energy munitions. While not as effective as HE, it can be used against troops.

[rossmcpharter]

When does the hollow charge ignite? If on contact (as with the side of a vehicle or building), then how will it ignite when fired against an infantryman?

Normally on contact.

Hollow charge/HEAT/Munroe effect munitions can be dangerously sensitive/unstable. After the war British PIAT ammunition was deemed such, and disposed of, it was considered too dangerous to store in the Ammunition Depots after a number of incidents.

[ChristopherPerrien]

When does the hollow charge ignite? If on contact (as with the side of a vehicle or building), then how will it ignite when fired against an infantryman?

Normally on contact.

Hollow charge/HEAT/Munroe effect munitions can be dangerously sensitive/unstable. After the war British PIAT ammunition was deemed such, and disposed of, it was considered too dangerous to store in the Ammunition Depots after a number of incidents.

HEAT weapons cana have point or base initiating fuses or both. The cannon fired ones are pretty stable as they have to withstand the high shock/g-forces of firing and could have a fairly non-"touchy" fuze. The rocket and definity spigot rounds would be more touchier because the fuzes would have a lower shock/g -force threshold to fire after they hit a target at a lower speed. Of course any aged HE, HEAT,fuze, powder can get real touchy after long and/or improper storage.

Cannon fired HEAT was really safe, I have seen a 105 live HEAT fall tip-frst onto a concrete floor from 8 feet and not blow up. 2 fell out an old ammo box when some idiot(Cpl Digenova) shoved them on top of a stack inside an ammo bunker . I caught the one that fell base first , but I could not catch the one that hit tip first. After that I used to show recruits -(privates/lieutenants ) how to do a dud round test on HEAT(black) rounds sitting in a M60 tank ready ammo rack. I would hit each one on the tip with a ball-peen hammer and say "dud-round" if they did not blow up. Doing that 12-14? times seemed to scare the heck out of some people . Little did I know the 105 Heat we had had both a point initiating and a base detonating fuze, I thought it just had a base fuze after the ammo bunker incident considering how hard that one hit the floor.

[G Kettler]

Gents,
Modern tanks carry Sabot and HEAT. Heat works just fine against infantry now, worked well in 1944 also! When the Panzerfaust round blows, it goes BANG! just like anything else. And if you have a choice; Panzerfaust vs The Red Horde or your bolt-action rifle, which one will take out more bad folks? A no-brainer! Enemy Morale will plummet when you shoot the Panzerfaust and those in your sight pictue will stop, drop, and cover as there is a pretty hefty HE charge headed in their direction. Sure, shaped charge is not the most efficient here but, it beats a swift kick in the shorts EVERY SINGLE TIME! So you have blast, shrapnel, secondary projectiles launched in the area plus a lot more headed out from the impact along the line of flight. This would be pretty lethal so when aiming, shoot for the first rank, take out the 2nd, 3rd an 4th ranks with your shotgun like blast of high velocity fragments and debris.

Regards,

George
US Cav 1986-2006
NW Iraq late 03-late 04

[ChristopherPerrien]

Cav eh ? George.



Well, as noted earlier somewhat,a panzerfaust round has basically the explosive power (400g's or so) as the standard offensive stick grenade (400g), and about the same minor fragmentation. Both are purely/mostly blast effect when used against troops.

I think it would be a losing idea to use specialized AT weapons of limited number on troops (i.e about like flinging a stick grenade 100m), besides it does take exposing your self a good bit to fire a PF, and also back-blast is involved, which is dangerous and can give-away your location besides the standing/one-knee position to fire. And the RED-HOARD prolly has or will show up with tanks sooner or later, even worse were the two RED-WHITE-BLUE HOARDS with their tank support/AFV's too.

Now a 120mm Heat is a different critter , the warhead weigh 23 lbs and i would guess maybe 7-8 lbs(3.5KG) is explosive. So you're looking at around 10x stielgranate/panzerfaust blast effect , plus 17 lbs of frag.

Did they ever develop a "pure" HE round for the 120MM? A 120-HE or 120-HEP It seems it was talked about/tested but never issued.

Some 120info http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/weapon/M256.html



Chris- just a tanker 85-93