re stick grenade

[new jersey devil]

was the german stick grenade considered a powerful grenade? how did it compare to the american pineapple or the british mills bomb?
also, were the german "egg" grenades rare? i hav'nt seen nearly as many photos of them as i have seen the stick...

[new jersey devil]

really? nothing?

[RandJS]

The German stick grenade was designed for offense, meaning the soldier can throw it farther than its lethal range. Case was of sheet steel, which fragmented into tiny shrapnel. Lethal at close range, but you were safe at 20 yards or so. By comparison, the British "Mills" grenade was cased in cast iron. Its fragments could be legal at longer range, so the thrower needed cover. The later British L2a1 had a thin metal case, which was lethal at 10 yds or less. I presume the American "pineapple" grenade would be similar to the "Mills".

There are other experts on this forum who may be able to provide production numbers for German grenades.

Rand

[KOnstantin77]

There are some production numbers on this page:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waf ... anaten.htm

It seems that the eihandgranate 39 wasn't common until midwar and later...

[JTV]

The German stick grenade was designed for offense, meaning the soldier can throw it farther than its lethal range. Case was of sheet steel, which fragmented into tiny shrapnel...

Which is one way of putting it. The other simpler way might be:
- Designed to be thrown into a trench or other closed space -> offensive hand grenade
- Designed to be thrown outside from a trench or building -> defensive hand grenade

Since offensive hand grenade kills mainly with blast, it has powerful explosive charge and makes very little effective fragments. Since defensive hand grenade kills mainly with (metal) fragments (of its casing or separate fragmentation jacket) it was less powerful explosive charge but it produces a lot of leathal fragments, which are often deadly beyond maximum distance that a typical soldier can throw. With World War 2 tech the need to produce lot of effective fragments usually equalled into putting lot of cast steel around the explosives. One could also note that especially with a proper technique stick hand grenades can also be typically thrown further than ball/egg-shaped hand grenades of similar weight.

Since Mills bom and US M2 are both defensive hand grenades while German stick hand grenades were defensive ones, comparing them is somewhat matter of comparing apples and oranges, since it seems likely they were not really designed for identical roles. The Germans were also aware of the limitations of their stick hand grenades if used in defensive hand grenade role and due to that in year 1942 introduced a fragmentation jacket which could be attached around warhead of existing stick hand grenades to turn them into defensive hand grenades.

It would interesting to know in what extent did German military use captured hand grenades to suppliment their own hand grenade inventory - there were plenty of good offensive hand grenade designs among them and for example the French hand grenade inventory must have been quite large.

Jarkko

[Sheldrake]

Where does the distinction between defensive and offensive hand grenades come from?

Hand grenades became standard infantry equipment thanks to the trench warfare established in the first few months of the first world war. http://www.firstworldwar.com/weaponry/grenades.htm Within trench warfare the distinction between "offensive " or "defensive" use of grenades was a moot point. The main idea use was to clear along the trenches with a couple of grenades followed up by a party equipped with rifle and bayonet. The defenders might retaliate with grenades of their own into the disputed traverse.

I don't think that armies approved of the "defensive " use of grenades thrown from cover as outlined by the OP. Certainly the British thought that soldiers should be defending themselves with small arms and not throwing grenades from behind cover. "If you were attacked by a tiger you would shoot it not chuck a bomb at it like an anarchist" There was more than a hint of disapproval about soldiers who hid under cover and threw grenades rather than took up a fire position. It was also extremely wasteful in grenades and provided a ready excuse for the less bold to withdraw after the last bomb had been thrown.

The Germans had stick and smaller egg grenades. The British standardised on Captain Mills' Bomb, which was copied by the US. During the First World War the British used the term "bomb" rather than grenade. The 1st Foot Guards objected to widespread use of the term Grenade because they were THE Grenadier Guards" and no none else was allowed to use the term. The British supplemented their bombs with the No 58 smoke grenade. Its white phosphorous filling was very effective against dugouts and bunkers. It fulfilled a similar role to the German flammenwerfer, but without attracting the same international opprobrium.

Both sides thought the other side had better grenades. The British thought the German stick grenades was easier to throw. The Germans thought the allies had an advantage because the Mills was a frighteningly lethal and that the British and American national sports provided training for throwing this heavier bomb accurately to a distance.

There were circumstances where soldiers defended themselves with hand grenades, including the incident which resulted in the award of the VC to the 18 year old Private Edward Dwyer of the East Surreys at hill 60 in 1915. The wikipedia entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Dwyer has a link to a contemporary audio recording made in 1915-6 of this gallant soldier. This recording was made in a less politically correct era and includes some of the worst vocals ever recorded singing "Here we are again" solo. But this was a song sung by a choir of 800 on the march.