Are there any data or photos, that W-SS soldiers were using revolvers?
I found this old thread:
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6655 , but there isn't any info for my question.
Revolver and W-SS
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K.Kocjancic
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There are certainly cases where German troops were found carrying revolvers in the last desperate months in 1945. It seems to have been the Kaiserday's 'Reichsrevolver' M 1879 & M 1883 in 10,55mm caliber that must have come from scraping the bottom of the barrel. I don't know if any of them found their way into the SS but since the only qualification needed to don any uniform then, was that you were breathing, it is quite likely.
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Ostuf Charlemagne
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Hi Kocjo....
Yes .... and no.
No because he wasn't regulation weapons....but yes because lots of german soldiers on the Eastern Front prized a lot the russian Nagant revolver as a war booty,it demostrated the soldier had been in fight for to capture it.
Then you got the french militia when they were versed within the Charlemagne...all of them were personally armed with Colt and Smith and Wesson US revolvers recuperated from the allied parachutages to the resistance who fell in their hands...At Wildflecken,general Krukenberg ordonned the militiamen to give back their revolvers,but some didn't (or had two...) and kept them ''unlegally'' and bring them to combat in Pomerania....
Also i saw a picture of french Sipo-SD auxiliaries,in SS -SD uniform during an operation against the ''maquis'',when they are capturing two partisans...one of those Sipo-SD auxiliary tote a long barreled revolver.
Sorry i don't have the picture....
By the same way,i guess it won't be impossible to find some pics of SS italians with revolvers.... but in all case ,those are personal,war-booty weapons,not regulation ones !
Yes .... and no.
No because he wasn't regulation weapons....but yes because lots of german soldiers on the Eastern Front prized a lot the russian Nagant revolver as a war booty,it demostrated the soldier had been in fight for to capture it.
Then you got the french militia when they were versed within the Charlemagne...all of them were personally armed with Colt and Smith and Wesson US revolvers recuperated from the allied parachutages to the resistance who fell in their hands...At Wildflecken,general Krukenberg ordonned the militiamen to give back their revolvers,but some didn't (or had two...) and kept them ''unlegally'' and bring them to combat in Pomerania....
Also i saw a picture of french Sipo-SD auxiliaries,in SS -SD uniform during an operation against the ''maquis'',when they are capturing two partisans...one of those Sipo-SD auxiliary tote a long barreled revolver.
Sorry i don't have the picture....
By the same way,i guess it won't be impossible to find some pics of SS italians with revolvers.... but in all case ,those are personal,war-booty weapons,not regulation ones !
Russian Nagant revolvers & German use
Ostuf's Charlemagnes observation about trophy Nagant revolvers held by German troops is surely correct. But the Nagants were thin on the ground even 1941-42 and became rare after. But I've read that even rarer, even for Russian troops, was finding ammunition for the Nagants. So much so that it was quite common in the Red Army to drill our the cylinders to accept the 7,62mm P-type pistol cartridge used in the SMG's and TT-pistols. It does not sound like safe practice but perhaps safety came a bad second in the Red Army.
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Ostuf Charlemagne
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Hi Varjag....you obviously know about weapons.... yes,Nagant were scarce and most of them were held by political commissaries,wich are two reasons for why they were so prized by german troops as war booty.
You are right about some ''field'' convertions for shoot the 7,62x25 ammo in them...some Nagant appeared the weapons marked in the USA after the fall of the Iron Curtain,and some american gunsmiths had the same idea and showed up with some solutions for shoot the 7,62x25 in them,since the original cartridge is hard to come by by now...of course it may be reloaded.
You are right about some ''field'' convertions for shoot the 7,62x25 ammo in them...some Nagant appeared the weapons marked in the USA after the fall of the Iron Curtain,and some american gunsmiths had the same idea and showed up with some solutions for shoot the 7,62x25 in them,since the original cartridge is hard to come by by now...of course it may be reloaded.
Your observation regarding the SD in France is quite correct.Ostuf Charlemagne wrote:Hi Kocjo....
Yes .... and no.
No because he wasn't regulation weapons....but yes because lots of german soldiers on the Eastern Front prized a lot the russian Nagant revolver as a war booty,it demostrated the soldier had been in fight for to capture it.
Then you got the french militia when they were versed within the Charlemagne...all of them were personally armed with Colt and Smith and Wesson US revolvers recuperated from the allied parachutages to the resistance who fell in their hands...At Wildflecken,general Krukenberg ordonned the militiamen to give back their revolvers,but some didn't (or had two...) and kept them ''unlegally'' and bring them to combat in Pomerania....
Also i saw a picture of french Sipo-SD auxiliaries,in SS -SD uniform during an operation against the ''maquis'',when they are capturing two partisans...one of those Sipo-SD auxiliary tote a long barreled revolver.
Sorry i don't have the picture....
By the same way,i guess it won't be impossible to find some pics of SS italians with revolvers.... but in all case ,those are personal,war-booty weapons,not regulation ones !
There are many pictures of soldiers in France armed with captured weaponry. In the following volume of 'Chaindogs', there are photos of a Feldgendarmerie troop armed entirly with captured Sten guns.
By this rationale, officers, radio troops, drivers, etc could also be armed with revolvers.
This of course could include any SS troops.
I doubt any Waffen SS troops in France would be armed with revolvers though, as they entered France as fully equiped divisions when training/resting and again after D-Day.
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Kunnar Kesküla
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On the picture below are guys from Estonian SD. Central guy is wearing revolver, like i saw that. Picture is taken on 1942. What kind of revolver this is? Who knows. But i guess this can't be a gun which he pick up from some battlefield by hisself. This must be gun which is given to him as something which belonged to "regular weaponry". Because picture is probably taken pretty soon after they join with SD and SiPo.
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K.Kocjancic
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Kunnar Kesküla
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Ostuf Charlemagne
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Hi Kunnar,Kocjo,Varjag.....
Kunnar : Very nice picture.... (i recorded it in a diskett !)
This is obviously a russian Nagant revolver,you can see it from the butt of the grips and,above all,because of the tipical ring for a cord.(no cord with this one but the ring is here like in all Nagant samples...)
Sorry Varjag,the Luger just don't look this way from the butt ( i know,i have a pristine 1915 Luger in shooting condition !)
Let's keep this topic open and let's add any more SS/SD revolver toting picture who may comes by!
By the way ,have a look at my new topic in this section ''personal handguns of famous WW2 leaders )
I have a picture showing Waffen-SS troopers examining a captured Tokatev TT pistol in the eastern front...not a revolver but if the picture may interest one of you,i scann it??
Kunnar : Very nice picture.... (i recorded it in a diskett !)
This is obviously a russian Nagant revolver,you can see it from the butt of the grips and,above all,because of the tipical ring for a cord.(no cord with this one but the ring is here like in all Nagant samples...)
Sorry Varjag,the Luger just don't look this way from the butt ( i know,i have a pristine 1915 Luger in shooting condition !)
Let's keep this topic open and let's add any more SS/SD revolver toting picture who may comes by!
By the way ,have a look at my new topic in this section ''personal handguns of famous WW2 leaders )
I have a picture showing Waffen-SS troopers examining a captured Tokatev TT pistol in the eastern front...not a revolver but if the picture may interest one of you,i scann it??
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K.Kocjancic
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Ostuf Charlemagne
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Kocjo....here the pic.....sorry i had to make a photocopy of reduction,original being way to big to pass on scanning !
Bottom line : Waffen-SS used no revolvers....but they were regulation for some foreign volunteers SD units....like for instance the french Selbschuetzpolizei which was issued french model 1892 ,8mm,revolvers.
I don't find your Handschar pics ??
Bottom line : Waffen-SS used no revolvers....but they were regulation for some foreign volunteers SD units....like for instance the french Selbschuetzpolizei which was issued french model 1892 ,8mm,revolvers.
I don't find your Handschar pics ??
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K.Kocjancic
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Thanks for posting photo!Ostuf Charlemagne wrote:I don't find your Handschar pics ??
I posted most of the photos here:
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21727
Regards,
Kocjo
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Ostuf Charlemagne
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Pic-1 : definitely not SS,but armed with a revolver,an unteroffizier of the Freies Arabien Legion in Tunisia 1943, armed with a model 1892,8mm revolver,surplus from Vichy french army.....
Pic-2: An unterfeldwebel (left) and a Leutnant of Georgian Legion,token in Normandy some months before to be versed in the Waffen-SS....no revolver but interesting since this NCO at left pack in his holster what is obviously a Colt 1911....
3 posibilities : that's a captured US 1911,cal .45.....
that's the argentine 9mm version of the 1911 (Argentine sold some of those guns to Germany during WW2).....
that's a Norwegian made 1911 cal.45 captured by the germans in 1940....
Pic-3: Here is Major Von Renteln,officer of a cossack rgt (Don or Kuban)
of the Vlassov army in Normandy..... Von Renteln was an Estonian of german ascendence who served as a lieutenant in the Czar's Cavalry Guard during WW1....deported in Siberia by the bolsheviks,escaped and went to Germany....enlisted the german army as a private in 1939 !
He packs in his holster what i think to be a belgian made Browning Hi Power 9mm...but i'm not sure .
Pic-2: An unterfeldwebel (left) and a Leutnant of Georgian Legion,token in Normandy some months before to be versed in the Waffen-SS....no revolver but interesting since this NCO at left pack in his holster what is obviously a Colt 1911....
3 posibilities : that's a captured US 1911,cal .45.....
that's the argentine 9mm version of the 1911 (Argentine sold some of those guns to Germany during WW2).....
that's a Norwegian made 1911 cal.45 captured by the germans in 1940....
Pic-3: Here is Major Von Renteln,officer of a cossack rgt (Don or Kuban)
of the Vlassov army in Normandy..... Von Renteln was an Estonian of german ascendence who served as a lieutenant in the Czar's Cavalry Guard during WW1....deported in Siberia by the bolsheviks,escaped and went to Germany....enlisted the german army as a private in 1939 !
He packs in his holster what i think to be a belgian made Browning Hi Power 9mm...but i'm not sure .
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