Hitler's Pistols

Discussions on the small arms used by the Axis forces.
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Schmauser
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Hitler's Pistols

Postby Schmauser » 26 Jun 2002 01:40

What happened to Hitler's two pistols that he carried with him during his last days in the bunker. He had with him a self-loading 7.65mm Walther Model PP or PPK and a 6.35mm Model 8. He used the PPK (Like the one below) to kill himself.

Image

It is known that Arthur Axmann's adjutant Oberreichsjugendführer Gerhard Welzin took the two pistols as a keep sake after Hitler had died. After he fled the bunker, Welzin was captured by the Soviets and imprisoned, where he later died. Does anyone know what happened to the guns?

~Regards Schmauser

varjag
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Hitlers Pistols

Postby varjag » 26 Jun 2002 11:28

What happened to them, who knows?
But on David Irvings site recently someone claimed to 'have located' the
.32 PPK and ,I think, offered it for sale. There was also mention of a
.32 S&W revolver that Angela Raubal(?) shot herself with, complete with
a s/n.
Didn't pay too much notice as periodically 'genuine Nazi heirlooms' turn
up on,mostly the U.S., gun market at Fairyland Prices.
Back in, I think 1994, the offering was 'Hitlers Personal P.38 with which
he Shot Himself' - "bloodstains still visible..."

It is unlikely that Hitler's or for that matter Eva Braun's pistols were
registered, i.e. s/numbers recorded - so the slate is open to fraudsters
of every kind.

Ovidius
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Postby Ovidius » 26 Jun 2002 14:17

An even more interesting weapon, Reichsmarschall Hermann W. Goering's pistol(type PP?):

Image

The caption reads:

Above – Gold-plated, engraved Walther semi-automatic pistol surrendered by Herman Goering at the time he was captured by Jewish Lt. Jerome Shapiro, along with Shapiro's U.S. Colt 45.


Emphasis is mine.

Source: http://www.juliaauctions.com

~Regards,

Ovidius

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Schmauser
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Postby Schmauser » 26 Jun 2002 16:24

Thank you varjag & Ovidius,

I guess we will never know. But I can see it now, some old Russian peasant is using Hitler's suicide weapon to shoot rabbits in the siberian wilderness. :?

~Regards Schmauser

Ovidius
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Postby Ovidius » 27 Jun 2002 00:14

Schmauser wrote:I guess we will never know. But I can see it now, some old Russian peasant is using Hitler's suicide weapon to shoot rabbits in the siberian wilderness. :?


"For some reasons"(euphemism) Russia seems to be the country where most European classic cars, weapons and art works can be found :mrgreen:

~Regards,

Ovidius

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Schmauser
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Main Target = Göring

Postby Schmauser » 27 Jun 2002 00:30

Image

I like the way both guns are pointing at Görings head in this picture :mrgreen:

~Regards Schmauser

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wolfen
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Postby wolfen » 30 Jun 2002 07:13

I remember reading an article in either Guns'n Ammo or a magazine published by Guns'n Ammo that i have. I didn't want to post till I found it but it seems to of disappeared. In it was a picture of a gold plated PPK engraved with acorns and oak leaves, it had ivory grips with AH cared in them and "blood pitting" on the muzzle. The ower caimed it was Hitler's suicide pistol and that he had brought it back from Germany in 1946. The writter of the article was skeptical of the claim because there was no proof other than this mans word(they never gave his name) and theres been more than enough time to make a convincing fake. Maybe someone can get a DNA sample from the "blood pitting" and test it against Hitler's skull fragment(if thats even possible).

I don't believe we'll ever really know either.
Last edited by wolfen on 01 Jul 2002 05:15, edited 1 time in total.

Ovidius
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Postby Ovidius » 30 Jun 2002 11:03

wolfen wrote:I remember reading an article in either Guns'n Ammo or a magazine published by Guns'n Ammo that i have. I didn't want to post till I found it but it seems to of disappeared. In it was a picture of a gold plated PPK engraved with acorns and oak leaves, it had ivory grips with AH cared in them and "blood pitting" on the muzzle. The ower caimed it was Hitler's suicide pistol and that he had brought it back from Germany in 1946. The writter of the article was skeptical of the claim because there was no proof other than this mans word(they never gave his name) and theres been more than enough time to make a convincing fake. Maybe someone can get a DNA sample from the "blood pitting" and test it against Hitler's skull fragment(if thats even possible).


I could not find a thoroughly accurate description of Adolf Hitler's pistol, but from here:

Unofficial Walther Home Page:
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2188/

I've found out there was a Party Leader version of the PPK pistol, with engraved grips. This series had been built on request from Hitler, who awarded these pistols as prizes.

The PPK, a smaller version of the PP, was made to fill the need for a compact concealable handgun used by undercover police officers. Many police officers today trust their lives to this little pistol as a back-up to their service sidearm. As a side note, PPK stands for Polizei Police Kriminal , and was first introduced in 1931. It saw extensive service in the German government and military during WWII. Walther produced more than 150,000 during the war. Some of the more collectable PPK's are the Party Leader, ones with a heel magazine release in any caliber, and those marked with a Waffenamt "RZM" and "WaA359". The Party Leader was not acually a special gun, but rather the grips that were attached to it made it special. It was awarded by the Fuhrer, though not presented by Hitler himself in every case. Beware of fakes. These are the most copied grips out there. Many people think there is a definite block of serial numbers for these guns, but there was no such block reserved just for this purpose.


Party Leader or fake?

Image

~Regards,

Ovidius

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Marcus Wendel
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Postby Marcus Wendel » 30 Jun 2002 11:19

On a similar topic, in The Military Advisor Vol 13, Number 2 (Spring 2002) there is a 14 page article on the .22-caliber Smith & Wesson revolver (No. 709) owned by Hitler and used by Geli Raubel to kill herself, called "Gun of destiny: Adolf Hitler's Smith & Wessor Revolver" by Robert A. Johnston.
It also includes a photo of a gun permit issued to Hitler on 26 Nov 1921, something I've never seen before.

/Marcus

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Hitlers S & W revolver

Postby varjag » 01 Jul 2002 12:32

Thanks Marcus for correcting my earlier statement about the gun Miss
Raubal used to end her life, a .22 S & W s/n 709. Not knowing what
model S&W it was - the interesting point is that Herr Hitler in 1921 did
have to obtain a permit for such a weapon. Second, that it had such a
very low serial number as 709 - when S&W serials even at that early time
easily ran into five figures.
As for any ornamented or 'special issue' Walthers,the few comments
recorded about Hitler's pistols by those that had seen them, do not men-
tion anything but stock-standard 'blues'.IF Hitler had had, anything
ornamented,gold-plated or likewise, I sure that fact would have been
recorded by history.
It is easily forgotten these days, that Hitler was himself, an old 'Front-
schwein' from WW 1 and they tended to dislike the ornamental.
Hitlers valet, Heinz Linge testified that Hitler always had two pistols,
a .25 and a .32 Walther.More interestingly - that he usually CARRIED
the .25 in a specially designed concealed waist-holster even on state
occasions.Something, that if true, puts him in yet another unique class
of statesmen.

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Johnnyrocket
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Re: Hitler's Pistols

Postby Johnnyrocket » 02 Mar 2009 01:55

I need to know the exact "make and model" of the gun Hitler used to commit suicide with in Berlin. THE MORE DETAILS about the gun the better.

Thanks.

Johnny R.

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Simon K
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Re: Hitler's Pistols

Postby Simon K » 02 Mar 2009 02:15

Ovidius sounds quite odious And the emphasis is mine. :lol:
Lovely pistols though.

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Sarge
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Re: Hitler's Pistols

Postby Sarge » 06 Mar 2009 07:51

When Göring surrendered he was carrying an S&W mod M&P 38 spl revolver. It is the West Point museum along with his Reichs Marshalls baton. Some where I have a photo of him surrendering which shows this revolver.
Sarge

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Grünherz
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Re: Hitler's Pistols

Postby Grünherz » 18 Mar 2009 18:56

An old thread revived! I'm going to TRY to attach photos of a Hitler pistol offered for auction in the Mohawk Arms catalog of 11/20/87. I hope that the photo with the printed background info comes through OK. I can try redoing them more clearly but it probably wouldn't be much better.
(a scan?)
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Last edited by Grünherz on 18 Mar 2009 19:03, edited 2 times in total.

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Grünherz
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Re: Hitler's Pistols

Postby Grünherz » 18 Mar 2009 18:58

one more...
(You'll probably have to print it to read it! Or just turn your head 90 degrees! :wink: )
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