Photos - Germans with captured firearms

[peeved]

Is there any posibility at No 2 photo,the rifles to be Mosin Nagand ?

The ones with rat tail bayonets, yes... at least several Mosin-Nagant M1891 infantry rifles based on the position of front sling swiwels. The man on the right and 2nd from left maybe also one Tokarev each.

Markus

[SVaaka]

Actually - Mosin-Nagant 1891/30....

[peeved]

Oops...
You're right.
Should've zoomed in first.

[CHARLEMAGNE 4]

What is this ?

[Alanmccoubrey]

That looks like an MG13 to me, so it isn't a captured weapon but the predecessor of the MG34.

[Poot]

#2 shows WSS troops recovering Mosin-Nagant M1891/30 and Tokarev SVT-40 rifles. It appears that the second soldier from the left has an SVT as his primary arm. These are from a sequence of photos on the SS-Kriegsberichter site.

Pat

[peeved]

Suomi at http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kradmelder-der-W ... 1ea4725320

Markus

[JTV]

Suomi at http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kradmelder-der-W ... 1ea4725320

Not really a captured firearm...

Jarkko

[peeved]

Not really a captured firearm...

True enough just like probably some Radoms, FN GPs etc. on this thread,

I believe that similar considerations lead to "Beute- and Umbauwagen" thread being merged into the "Allied Vehicles in German Service". Plus there's no certainty the user is German; However since there is no "Photos - non-German probably non-captured firearms in German service" thread this one always seems to be the next best thing. Still "Photos - Foreign firearms in German service" might be a better collective thread name.

Markus

[Poot]

I'm not even sure which branch of service he is, although I'm not a uniform and insignia collector/researcher. There is no Heer breast eagle, but the helmet decal does not appear to be WSS, but there appear to be SS runes obscured on his collar...

Pat

[peeved]

Hi Pat,

Looks like the helmet runes have been sanitised based on some earlier versions found on Google Images, e.g.:

Regards,
Markus

[peeved]

Would it be possible to rename the thread: Photos - Germans with captured firearms http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=99382 to e.g. Photos - Foreign small arms in German service. Especially in the case of Waffen-SS & Polizei formations gun users in German uniforms aren't necessarily German and many firearm types that were captured were also acquired by other means: e.g. from Austria and Czechoslovakia through annexation and continued production during German occupation. Indigenous firearms were also manufactured in occupied Belgium, Poland, Italy etc. If identifying a gun wielder as a German is difficult at times, figuring out if e.g. a ZB-26 in a photo is captured (as per current thread name) and not annexed by or produced for the Germans often seems almost impossible.

Additionally small arms were purchased from co-belligerents like Hungary and to some extent Finland, which also donated a number of Suomi SMGs to Germans, and Neutrals like Spain. Based on the percentage of photos I've seen these wouldn't warrant a separate thread but would fit under the header Photos - Foreign small arms in German service.

Regards,
Markus

[Marcus]

Moved the above request here to give the participants a chance to give their input.

[Poot]

I like Peeved's idea, and for the reasons he stated. It would allow us to include a wider, more contextually accurate array of the non-domestically produced weapons used by the Wehrmacht. Incidentally, this accords perfectly with my collecting interests.

Pat

[JTV]

I am also supporting Peeved's idea. The name he suggested (Photos - Foreign small arms in German service) would be more historically accurate and better fitting for the purpose than what is used at the moment.

Jarkko