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Information Request: 11th Prussian Regiment

Discussions on all aspects of Imperial Germany not covered in the other sections.

Information Request: 11th Prussian Regiment

Postby PavelKirilovich on 05 Nov 2012 04:46

Gentlemen and gentlewomen of the AHF:

I am preparing a paper on the 16-17 NOV 1915 trench raiding operation conducted by 1st Canadian Division's 2CIB, 5th and 7th Battalions, of LA PETITE DOUVE FARM (vicinity Messines). I have found, through checking the after action reports and intelligence summaries, that the eleven prisoners captured during this operation were from the 11th Prussian Regiment, which meshes with reconnaissance reports of uniforms in the area of the farm changing over the months of October and November 1915.

I will accept any and all information regarding the 11th Prussian Regiment as a result. There is mention from the ADMS 1 CDN DIV of the soldiers being from the Prussian Guards, if that helps narrow things down any. Apparently they were well nourished and had higher hemoglobin levels than the British but less than the Canadian average... the strangest things find their way into primary documents.

Of highest importance: Did the 11th Regiment's war diaries survive the Second World War strategic bombing campaigns? If so, where might they be accessed?

Best regards,
Pavel Kirilovich.
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Re: Information Request: 11th Prussian Regiment

Postby Ken S. on 06 Nov 2012 07:24

The claim that the opponents were "Prussian Guards" seems to be rather common so not very reliable. "11th Prussian Regiment" likely refers to Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 11. Highly unlikely that any of its records survived WW2, but there is a regimental history.

http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Gren.R_11
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Re: Information Request: 11th Prussian Regiment

Postby Latze on 07 Nov 2012 15:43

Pavel,

even if the war diary did not survive the regiment published it's history. The full title is:
"Geschichte des Königlich Preußischen Grenadier-Regiments König Friedrich III. : (2. Schles.) Nr. 11 u. seiner Grenzschutzformationen 1914 bis 1920 bearb. von Oberst a. D. von Prittwitz u. Gaffron", published 1932 in Berlin. I could get it through interlibrary loan and see if your raid is mentioned if you are interested.

regards
Matt
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Re: Information Request: 11th Prussian Regiment

Postby PavelKirilovich on 15 Nov 2012 05:51

Ken S.: Concur. The Divisional Adjutant for Medical Services is probably not the best guy to go to about the details of eleven prisoners taken by one of the twelve battalions in the division he serves with. The prisoners are from 2nd Battalion/11th Prussian Regiment. I don't know if that is related at all or not to Grenadier-Regiment Nr.11. Appreciate the information; will look into it in the coming weeks.

Latz/Matt: That would be excellent. As I stated above, eleven prisoners were taken, all belonging to 2 Battalion/11 Prussian Regiment. From the German perspective, after a sharp bombardment on the 16th of November with trench mortar and rifle fire continuing into the 17th, a raid was launched on their positions near the La Petite Douve farm strongpoint, vicinity Messines. Photocopies of the relevant pages and a translation would be appreciated; the professor I'd normally go to with this (my military German is better suited to the Second war than the First) is on sabbatical.
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Re: Information Request: 11th Prussian Regiment

Postby Latze on 25 Nov 2012 22:18

Pavel,

I received the regimental history of Grenadier-Regiment 11 on Friday. In November 1915 the regiment was nowhere near Messines but resting behind the Somme front in the villages of Brie, Villers-Carbonnel, Ennemain and Bellon. I suspect that the prisoners came from Reserve-Infanterie Regiment 11 (part of 117. Infanterie-Division, which was at Messines according to "Histories of 251 divisions of the German Army" in November 1915). Unfortunately this unit did never publish a unit history.

regards
Matt
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Re: Information Request: 11th Prussian Regiment

Postby Latze on 27 Nov 2012 22:54

Reserve-Infanterie-Regimenter (verschoben).pdf
Here is everything that is available for RIR 11 from 'Handbuch der Verbände und Truppen des deutschen Heeres 1914-1918, Teil VI, Band 2: Reserve- und Landwehrinfanterie' by Jürgen Kraus, Vienna 2012, ISBN: 978-3902526526
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Re: Information Request: 11th Prussian Regiment

Postby PavelKirilovich on 14 Dec 2012 16:11

Latze: Thanks mate, very helpful. I will footnote that in since sadly the 117th did not get a history set up. If I understand the documents correctly, RIR 11 is subordinate to 233 Infanterie-Brigade and 233BDE is a part of 117 Infanterie Division?
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Re: Information Request: 11th Prussian Regiment

Postby Latze on 15 Dec 2012 11:44

Pavel,

your reading is correct: 117. ID -> 233. Inf.Bde -> RIR 11

Minor aside, just a handful of German divisions had unit histories published. I was referring to regimental histories of which a lot were written. There is a listing "Erinnerungsblätter deutscher Regimenter" that has over 400 entries but there is none in it for RIR 11.

regards
Matt
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